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sir archely
June 18th, 2003, 19:13
Having known i was long a fan of the Wheel of Time fantasy series written by Robert Jordan, a few friends of mine all chipped in and bought me the WoT RPG book for xmas of 2001, just after it came out. This was nice, as i didn't have to pay for it. That's always a good thing.

In any case, we've been playing in it ever since. I am the GM, and i have two regular players. However, each of them runs from 2-4 PCs, and I have 4 extremely detailed NPCs that show up from time to time. There are currently 4 individual campaigns going on, but in essence they are all part of the same mega-campaign. If a character leaves a group, that character plays by him or herself, and can join or interact with other campaigns. I'm running it in an alternate world in which Rand, Mat, Perrin, and Moiraine all chanced to step through the finn doorway in tear, and the resulting tear killed them. The PCs are the pattern's answer to the loss of ta'veren, and each may or may not become central, at least for a time. It's proving to be quite challenging for my GM skills to keep all of the groups going, and not screw anything up. The players would catch me on it, i've no doubt about that. It's the first campaign i've run in which i've had to take extensive notes, and make plans for the far off future, not to mention the near future. All in all it's a lot of fun.

That said, what i really started this for was to give my impression of the book itself. I think it's a great book, but could be better. The only real thing that makes it "great" in my opinion, is that it's based off of a series i like a lot. For someone who hasn't read WoT, i wouldn't recommend buying the book at all. You won't get it, and probably won't have fun, period. However, it also has a lot of shortcomings for fans as well.

First off, they tried to make character descriptions of many of the characters in the books. Rand, Mat, Perrin, Egwene, Lan, Moiraine, etc. These are awful. They don't come near to adequately describing what the people in the books are actually like. In fact, this is to be expected. The book characters are 'mega-heroes' and simply aren't balanced enough to fit inside a game system that tries to be balanced. If you want to play these kind of characters, one strategy that i've done is make the PCs ta'veren, stronger or weaker, permanent or (more likely) not. This allows me to boost them up a bit, give them extra skills and abilities they would normally not have, but remain within the framework. [Note: The game designers used this strategy to design Rand et al, but still fail imo.]

Another shortcoming of the book is the channeling system. It's okay, but has some major issues. Chances are good that a lvl 1 channeler who is aware of the lvl 23462346 armsman (fighter equivalent) who is trying to attack her will win the fight. The weaves and system can be abused a lot, and it requires a lot of fudging just to keep gameplay with channelers entertaining. In addition, many weaves from the books are not represented, and if you stuck to the book, battles between evenly matched channelers would be nigh on to impossible to determine the results of.

There are other problems, but those are a couple major ones that i see. The RPG book includes details up to book 6 of the series, and i'm told that it contains spoilers for up to book 7 or 8 if you look hard enough. I'm just too lazy to actually figure out what's where and compare. It has a rushed feel to it, as though it was something slapped together that they wanted to get out on the market.

At times self-contradicting, incomprehensible (typos and strange inclusions abound), both, or contradicting the series, it's still a decent buy for the serious fan of WoT. No matter what, it's my opinion that the GM is going to have his or her work cut out, in just rigging something up into a workable system that they like to play in. Improvisation and creativity are a must when working with it. I'd say that a good knowledge of the books is also a must for the GM, but not for the players. One of mine only started reading after we started playing, and he's had quite the fun time.

sir archely
June 18th, 2003, 19:18
This is a companion book to the WoT RPG main handbook. It is an adventure package, and picks up where the sample adventure from the back of the main book left off. It is designed to keep your PCs in the story of the series, without letting them change the events of the series.

I personally do not have the book, but i've heard bad things about it from almost everyone i know who does. Comments i've heard are that it:
-railroads PCs too much, and doesn't allow for many different types of characters, simply due to the one-track story. (understandable, i think, for a book that's trying to stay within the context of the series without messing anything up.)
-has recommended PC levels way off for the challenges it presents.
-has NPCs that don't even seem to be designed following the basic character creation rules of the main book.

These are just some of the difficulties that i've heard about from people who have played with the book. This book also seems to require much improvisation and creativity on the part of the GM who is running it.

I'd love to see any comments regarding this book from anyone else who has a view.

sir archely
July 1st, 2003, 22:00
hmm...i forgot to mention something. The WoT main book has some of the best WoT art i've seen. Can't even compare it to the awful art in the guide, and it's tons better than the covers.

Darth Everhate
May 2nd, 2005, 11:39
Hey peeps,
Downloaded a bunch of rpg stuff for the Wheel Of Time rpg. If anyone wants a copy I could mail it 2 u.
Anyways, my issue with the whole basing an rpg on a movie/novel/series is that the writers of the rpg book either haven't really read the material or often have their own view of the characters and from what I noticed clearly pick favorites. example: Lan is made out to be the ultimate badass (before Nyneave turns him into her whipping boy) in Jordan's writing and by the rpg standards he's a decent fighter easily defeated by a well rounded player character. I've found the same with the Star Wars rpg as well as DnD characters that have been translated from the novels.
Were we to adapt these characters to rpg I think it would be a whole new spin on what the writers for the rpg did.

Buck
May 2nd, 2005, 11:52
And here is where the DM has the right and privelage to ''beef up' Lan's sheet.

;)

Can you post his sheet? It would be cool if we all had a little 0.02 cents in how to build him bigger, faster and stronger...

Darth Everhate
May 2nd, 2005, 15:42
And here is where the DM has the right and privelage to ''beef up' Lan's sheet.

;)

Can you post his sheet? It would be cool if we all had a little 0.02 cents in how to build him bigger, faster and stronger...

Oh definately, it is our perogative to beef up anyone u want!!
I'll post his stats tonight or tomorrow along with some other favorites!

I agree with Arch as far as SOME characters being way too powerful, but Lan being a wussy dude :eyebrow: ?

sir archely
May 2nd, 2005, 17:39
no no. i was actually articulating a similar sentiment about those characters when i wrote that. the character stats as presented by the RPG are completely underpowered when compared to what they can do in the books.

however, i do think that this is done because the book characters are simply too powerful to really fit within the framework of the game. one element that most games try to include (with lesser or greater success) is the balance aspect. and even thinking about the skills and abilities that Rand possesses by the end of even book 6 or so (when he's what, like, 21, 22 now?) should show that he wouldn't fit within the framework. I'm saying that even with the 'cheating' the game designers did use (ta'veren effects) the characters fail to match up with their book counterparts. I do think it is to be expected though.

I'm having the most fun with this book playing in an 'parallel universe' where Rand, Perrin, Mat and Moiraine all bite the dust early in tDR (iirc) and the PCs are picking up the slack of saving the world, having been 'spun out by the wheel from need.' That way i don't have to even worry about crossing the main story's path and having to fudge things. Plus, the PCs never have to play second fiddle to the "real" heroes.

Buck
May 2nd, 2005, 21:06
If I remember the series, this means that Faile doesnt even exhist.

Niiiiiiiice. :)


As for Rand, he can exhist within the D20 system. He would just have to be some lvl 20 demigod type is all. It is quite doable. There is no such thing as too powerful in DnD. :quirk:

Darth Everhate
May 3rd, 2005, 07:37
That's Awesome planning Sir Arch!!! :thup:
I'm also running into problems with using characters from Star Wars. Whoever gave Luke stats must have been drinking because his progress from 'Return of the Jedi' to 'New Jedi Order' really isn't that impressive. The only truly badass character is Palpatine and he's dead and was killed in a cheesy way considering his power level. Darth Maul is also really kickass and comparing him to Obi-Wan's stats (in TPM) Maul should not have died the way he did (then again the whole arrogance as his downfall aspect is noted).
I like the fact that the SW rpg gives stats for characters from every movie
Obi-Wan has three sets of stat (and a set for his spirit form).

I'm crossing WOT with SW and when I saw Lan's stats I was like :eyebrow:
The weaving is wierd as well but I've managed to compare weave abilities with force abilities, the applications will be different of course but I think I can manage the crossover.
Now if only we could start this thing.....

My big problem with a lot of rpgs and movies is that they're not written by someone who's at least half a fan. Granted some of the people responsible for the rpgs are fans and give excellent insight to the world they're trying to adapt but once it comes to giving characters stats it gets hazy.

I agree with Buck, I HATED FAILE!! And Rand is (according to Jordan) this super level character who can only be beaten by The Dark One himself.

~lol~ There really IS no limit to power in DnD. Chrono's character in my brother's game became a god. It was quite amusing watching the DM scramble when we did stupid sh*t.

sir archely
May 3rd, 2005, 08:08
heh, yeah, no power limit, but for Rand to be in epic levels at age 22 takes a lot of fudging i think. just saying that if they wanted a true to books rand, they'd have had to break the char generation rules they just wrote a lot more than they already did.

Buck
May 3rd, 2005, 10:00
*rand is touched by the creator*

Gains 5 levels and becomes a 2h-swordmaster(+10).

A bit sketchy but doable. *coughs*

Darth Everhate
May 3rd, 2005, 11:26
heh, yeah, no power limit, but for Rand to be in epic levels at age 22 takes a lot of fudging i think. just saying that if they wanted a true to books rand, they'd have had to break the char generation rules they just wrote a lot more than they already did.

That's one of the problems I'm talking about. Generation rules don't really apply to characters from a book or movie. If I wanted to make Rand (by Jordan's vision) I'd have to throw out the generation rules.

~lol~Buck I agree the Deus ex Machina is every GM's tool and we've all used it :D
The pc's destroy your favorite badguy?? No problem! *poof* he's back!!

My brother used to get so pissed at us he'd grab 'Dieties and Demigods' and start throwing gods at us to fight. Then we wound up annoying the gods and he'd just ressurect his annoying bad guys and give them incredible power
......Kinda like Rand by the rpg standards.

Buck
May 3rd, 2005, 15:54
Yea there is nothing wrong with power play as long as the DM is just as vicious. The way I always experienced it, you never knew if you were going to make it through the battle no matter how badd-ass your group was.

Back 10 years ago, I used to play everyday, and this one group of character me and my buds had were based of the humanoids book. I had a wood giant, my friends were wemic, minotaur and your standard elf mage(they never get old!! :) ) and we ended up having dragon mounts and fighting the and undead legion which was lead by none other than Vecna himself.

Wow, we would fight him and he would either almost kill us or vice versa and somewhere between one battle and the next we gained 3-4 levels and Vecna found another body part.. *cringes in fear*

Then there was the battle with the Tarasque the day we decided to retire our characters. Man it was nuts. It boiled down to the whole team taking out the Tarasque in 5 rounds while our elven mage 'ran in fear'. Haha, we had to wait till the fear expired so he can wish the remains out of exhistence.

Oh the laughs...


DM:
You hit the Tarasque with 4 magical arrows dealing a total of 120 dmg
Elric (the elven mage) is still running around like a little sissy.
Ok the Tarasque retaliates by...

Our characters ended up doing cameos in a couple later campaigns with alternate characters, at which point they were classified as demigods.

Tangeant aside, you can scale a character up as strongly as you wish it, all you need to do is scale up adviseries to compensate to make sure there still is a threat of fatality at any instance. (READ: Always keep the odds against the players 3:1)

On average, I would say only 1 out of every 4 of my characters ever made it beyond level 5. Ahh memories. :)

Darth Everhate
May 5th, 2005, 08:15
Tangeant aside, you can scale a character up as strongly as you wish it, all you need to do is scale up adviseries to compensate to make sure there still is a threat of fatality at any instance. (READ: Always keep the odds against the players 3:1)
On average, I would say only 1 out of every 4 of my characters ever made it beyond level 5. Ahh memories. :)
I'm starting the players at 5th level and the adversaries the books give are superwimps compared to them. Looks like I'll have to get a copy of 'Dieties and Demigods' :D

I've noticed that most games don't make really powerful npcs even when the players follow the creation rules. d20 and white-wolf are notorious for it.
When based on a movie or book it kinda becomes a let-down because it doesn't fit.
But sometimes they surprise you.....