Death - Part II - Fears and the Afterlife

[sir archely]

Here's the second half of death, what your thoughts are about the afterlife. I also think that much of people's fear or non-fear about death stems from their views about the afterlife, so i mashed these two together.

Well, scratch that. Instead i'll say that to me, it seems like views of the afterlife should color one's fear (or not) of death, but in thinking about it there for a second, it seems like for many people, this isn't the case. Did that make sense? Anyway, i know tons of people who are devout christians, proclaim to believe in heaven, believe that they are leading a good life and will get there, but are still terrified of dying. I don't get that.

The purpose of this thread is to just air out some views on the afterlife. Again, it isn't intended to be a religious debate thread, just a post your thoughts type of thread. There are probably far too many facets that will come out in this thread to actually debate one thing, so if someone wants to, they should probably start a more specific thread.

For myself, death doesn't hold any fear for me. As i said in the other thread, it's unavoidable. Living longer could just have easily been living shorter. I try to enjoy my life as i go along, and i tend not to think about the future a lot, to the chagrin of my family and friends who want me to plan for it. I'm still seeking that touch of planning that would help, but wouldn't make me living simply for what comes next. In all honesty, if i died in a few seconds, and was allowed to reflect on my life, i would be happy.

As of right now, i can't say i'm entirely sure where i stand on the afterlife. With a heavy catholic upbringing, i've still got the remnants of a voice inside me saying that we'll be going to heaven when we die. I'm not sure i can rationally accept that, but it's there. I know for sure i can't accept that there is a hell though. I'll just leave it at that, maybe a different thread would be more appropriate to explain why. At least, if there is something like the supremely evil satan's place, i don't think that people can go there when they die.

My views on the afterlife fluctuate often, and frankly, i'm not sure that i mind. It's one of those "i'll find out when i get there" type of things. I know i'm going to get there sooner or later, so why worry about it? In any case, i'm still curious about what other people believe, so i hope you tell me. :)

[LaughingTurtle]

I’d have to say I’m almost in the same boat as you arch. I too was raised Catholic but as of late I’ve begun to have some doubts about my beliefs which has colored my thoughts about such things as the afterlife. I’m not really disenchanted with my faith but it’s more of an “asking questions phase.” After taking a philosophy course this past semester my eyes were opened to numerous other possibilities about viewing the world, the afterlife and myself. I’d be hard pressed to put down here what I believe 100 percent at this moment. (though I think that goes for a lot of other people as well) Frankly I don’t have a clue about a lot of things but my current stance is basically just to keep an open mind.

Heh, I know this doesn't really further a debate or discussion much but well...that's the way it is.

[almost crimes]

yeah i'm technically a catholic and went to catholic school for 13 years. really turned me off organized christianity, i can tell you that.

i'm of the belief that there is no way to discover what comes after life, if anything at all, until we are at that point so i put my all into just focusing on this life. i know a lot of people need to believe there is something after death for comfort but i am not one of those people. i'm basically just going to try and live as happy a life as i can and if there is some sort of afterlife well then that's just great. if not i'm fine with that too.

also, i have a big problem with people devoting too much of their lives to concerns about some sort of afterlife. i think that is one of the major flaws of organized religion: it creates a slave mentality. like: 'well i don't really have to worry about how satisfied i am in this life because i'll go to heaven after.' that was one of neitzche's arguments against christianity and i'm inclined to agree with him on that. putting too much emphasis on something that is not even assured to happen is foolish. if you believe in a heaven and hell, fine - but make it a passive belief and live your life to the fullest rather than just being of the 'oh well i'll get my enjoyment in heaven.' attitude.

[Anita Blake]

well, i guess i'd have to say that as far as the afterlife is concerned, i don't know what i believe. There are lots of things i'd like to believe, but ultimately, i'm not even sure i truly believe in anything. I like the idea of reincarnation, and sometimes i believe in it, and i like the idea of any kind of an afterlife, such as being left as a ghost or spiritual guide, or going to heaven, but most of the time, ultimately, i find it hard to actually invest myself in a solid belief. I think that when you die, you become nothing, but that's really depressing, so sometimes i try to believe something else, but there's a big difference in what you try to believe and what you actually believe.

On those days when i believe in an afterlife, i don't really worry about it too much. I figure, if you live a decent life, and you are on good terms with yourself, then you will have a peaceful afterlife. I too, was raised catholic (and lutheran for a while, and went to Baptist summer camp), but i have never been able to reconcile 2 major beliefs of chrisitanity, which are :if you break the 10 commandments, or defy God/the Bible, then you will burn in Hell for all eternity; and God will forgive anything. I've dropped religion as a hobby since i found it too scary and bizarre, but i figure that if God is in all of us, and God is the only one who can forgive you, really, you need to forgive yourself to have a good afterlife. It's not the rules you break, it's the reasons you have, and your own ability to understand that you aren't perfect. I think if there is an afterlife, if there is a heaven, then it's not some abstract being that decides your entry, nor some dead saints of one religion or another, but yourself. Only you can decide what your afterlife is going to be, and some of that decision is made throughout yout life, with your actions and such, but mostly the decision is made at the moment of your death, whether or not you are satisfied with the life you led, if you can forgive yourself for the bad things you did, and accept that you are who you are and that no one else can judge you, because no one else knows you as throughouly as yourself.

when i believe in reincarnation, i want to be reincarnated as a cat. :)

[dark fuschia]

I'm Catholic and have stayed that way most of my life. I've always heard Gods voice in my head, (yehayeha I know you all htink its schotzophrenia :D) so I've never had any lack of faith. I've always seen wrong and right very clearly too, it's like a voice inside me. I believe in heaven and hell and purgatory. I also believe that we can't know the nature of these things though we can be given glimpses through revelations. I think you can learn alot by praying and communing with God. Also I've never had a prayer go unanswered. I've gotten everything I've ever asked for. Sometimes I've wished i haven't asked (you know; careful what you wish for) but God is sly that way.

[Apoc]

I don't believe that there is a god up there waiting for us nor a devil. I believe when we die it will be like the nothingness between dreams and being awake, we are asleep for around eight or more hours yet we dream little in that time, that nothingness, darkness, black chasm we never remember or think about, I believe is what is in store for us when we die.

It is only a small belief, I do not fear death, but I fear loss, I do not want to be left behind to grieve for those that pass before me, yet it is inevitable, I love life, but I know it will come to an end.

I would like to believe in a sort of heaven like place, but I can't, for the evidence, to my mind, is not sufficent enough that it exists. I can not believe that their is a hell were people are punished for eternity, if what most people believe is true, surely this god of theirs would forgive. Hell being a sentance for a time depending on the crime, but not for eternity, this to my mind is foolish and I would not want to support a god who has no forgiveness in his or her heart.

I have so many more views on this, but that is all they are, just views. The only answer will come through death.

[wiggin]

Well, scratch that. Instead i'll say that to me, it seems like views of the afterlife should color one's fear (or not) of death, but in thinking about it there for a second, it seems like for many people, this isn't the case. Did that make sense? Anyway, i know tons of people who are devout christians, proclaim to believe in heaven, believe that they are leading a good life and will get there, but are still terrified of dying. I don't get that.
Well, it's interesting... this topic came up in chat last night. To me, it's quite the opposite. I have some suspicions about what the afterlife might be like, but I really don't know. But I'm not worried in the slightest.

To me, it seems that dying is the easiest thing that any of us will ever do. It doesn't require any patience, any practice, and work - and it's going to happen to every one of us, so there's no escaping it.

What's the point in worrying then? It doesn't matter what I believe an afterlife will be like (or if there will be one at all) - because regardless, once I'm dead, I won't be able to change anything, and that's the only time I'm for sure going to figure out how things go.

It seems to me that instead of worrying about dying (which there is no escaping) we should be worried about living. I think that each of us is here for a purpose (whether you want to argue that said purpose is divinely inspired, or defined by ourselves doesn't matter), and we should attempt to fulfil what we're here for. I look at it like this: if there is some sort of afterlife that is predicated on how well one acts in life, then we should try to act accordingly, no? But if there isn't, wouldn't our lives be more fulfilling and joyful if we act well regardless?

So either way, our actions in this life should be independent of what an afterlife promises or threatens.

I suppose I should say where I'm coming from. Yeah, my theology does have a "heaven" of sorts, although it's unclear what that exactly is, and there is a limited and rather vague sense of "hell" or purgatory or something - although most things indicate that any stay in such a "hell" would be temporary, as a repentance of sorts if you were, say, a mass murderer or a serial rapist, or whatever. But in reality, while I do believe that there is and afterlife, and one that is (to an extent) dependent upon one's actions in life, I don't have the slightest idea what it will be like - how could I? Human metaphors are limited to the scope of our experiences in life, and this by nature must be outside those experiences.

Ender

[Alexia]

Personally, I have a half-belief in an afterlife. I know, I know, I know - it's like I'm a fence-sitter on every bloody decision, but I just haven't sorted it all out in my head yet, is all. :rolleyes:

So I'm technically a Roman Catholic. I went to a Catholic school till grade 3, went to an Anglican school from grade 4 to 8 and am at another Catholic school from 9 to present. However, my parents have never been very serious about their religion and neither am I. Perhaps because of that, but I know if I had taken an interest, they would have supported me. Simply though, there are a number of things relating to the Catholic Church that I disgaree with and I find it hard to follow a religion when it contains aspects I am so vehementaly against. They're the usual, you know - abortion, homosexuality, etc. - the slightly more 'risque' ideals. So when it comes to an afterlife, I gotta think - am I going to hell for being an agnostic? or am I not because the big man will forgive me? or is there no big man at all and in which case I get myself paranoid over these things for no reason whatsoever? So I go round and round in my head till I have to give up with frustration. Still, if there's an afterlife and I make it somewhere - ie. hell, heaven or purgatory - I think I'd want purgatory. Why? Because it has this sense about it where you don't get automatic access to all the good shit, but you have to work your way there so in the end you totally know that even though you're cut about having to work even though you've kicked the bucket, it's been through your own determination that you've got anywhere. Something like this idea makes it all very straightforward, fair and even relative to today's world. I guess I'm not exactly saying I totally believe in the chance of me getting somewhere once I'm deceased (peanuts forbid), but if I do - I'd like it to be purgatory.

Yeah. I'm a 'maybe' then. Again.

[Waffles]

Well, I think everyone has a soul, and it weighs 21 grams ;)

But I think that as your soul leaves your body, time slows down for you, so eventually you will be living an eternity at the moment of your death. Time would've stopped, but you would be floating around wherever you want to go. Maybe the will be other souls roaming around, and you might be able to interract with them. And then maybe you will be able to inhabit the body of an unborn child, or thing, so there will be eternal rebirth. Of course, I am a Christian (was born a Roman Catholic, so its natural that that would've rubbed off on me). So there might be a heaven, where you can go and live in eternal happiness. Or maybe you can only go there if you've done enough good. And if you haven't, then you just wander about till you have. Maybe good is defined in terms of Karma, and so you can only ascend once your Karma levels are high enough. Of course, if you do bad things, then you will have negative Karma. And if you've done enough abd things you will eventually descend into the fiery pits of hell. Maybe heaven is just wandering about in the stars, and hell is being caught up in the fiery molten core of the Earth. This would explain near death experiences as well, and why time slows down sometimes, because your soul is trying to leave your body. Would also explain out of body experiences.

You know, I think I like my theory :D

[Dregs]

Technically, all karma is bad karma.

Edit: Better say something worthwhile.

I don't fear death, because death, to me is not living. What I fear is not being able to do the things that need doing, not because I have to achieve them to get to heaven or achieve nirvana, because I feel its important to achieve these things. Its hard to restore the rivers of NSW to their former glory when you are dead. Its not that I don't believe in an afterlife, its just that I don't care. The wonder I feel in the middle of a rain forest, or the spell binding insignifigance I felt looking into the Grand Canyon or the joy I feel making that connection with another living being, even if its just seeing it, or the connection I feel to the whole world when its singing to me and it fills my senses, thats enough for me. I don't need an afterlife, because my heavens an hours drive out of the city.

I don't know if they've got all that in the afterlife, but I know I've got it right here.

[QuirkyTemplate]

In very few words ... I'm a Christian. One of those Christians that believe the Bible is actually God's message to us, that it's inerrant and all that jazz. So as I see it, there is a heaven, there is a hell. What gets you there is whether you rejected or accepted God in your life here.

People have a lot of preconceived ideas about what heaven is, but to be in the very presence of the infinite God of the universe ... oh wow. What could possibly be better than that? What could justify my apathy at watching other miss that? Is there anything I should hold back from giving of myself to try to save people from that hell? When you understand how heaven and hell really play into Christian theology, then it's a long way into finding out what makes a Christian tick.

[~KA3AK~]

I don't believe in afterlife, souls or any of that spiritual stuff. When we die,we die forever.