Katrina; or John Carpenter's "Escape From New Orleans"?

[Anita Blake]

i saw someone (corvus, i believe) mention the lack of a thread to discuss katrina. as for myself, i know that all the news around here has been about katrina and it's many, many implications. people out of homes, people out of humanity, soaring gas prices, the utter lawlessness of it all.

i'm shocked and appalled at the behaviour of the people of new orleans. ok, true, i have the popular media bias, and if the popular media loves anything, it's making the worst of a tragedy. I'm sure (or at least i hope) there are thousands of stories of helpful people, caring people, unexpeted miracles, etc. What i hear up north is none of that. i hear/read stories of helicoptors being shot down, looting, rape, fights over cots in the astrodome, illness, complete lack of planning/organization, and so on and so forth.

Speaking as someone who in my youth, read a lot of Anne Rice, I've always wanted to go to New Orleans one day and visit the French Quarter and the Garden District, see the old rotting cemetaries, all that good new orleans stuff, I have to say this: i believe they should just build a wall around the flooded parts, and let it go. The cost to repair and rebuild can't possibly be less than the cost to just start a whole new city. maybe one above sea level? Some areas, i imagine, can be salvaged, but the worst of it, with the gun-toting crazies who are resorting to violence to try to get their way, the parts flooded with toxic chemicals and raw sewage, just let it go. it had a good run, but let's face it, mother nature saw fit to claim it back, in an attack that will probably backlash against her, what with all the chemical factories and whatnot. regardless...

I'm reading a lot of comparisons between this hurricane and the tsunami in SE Asia, and 9/11, which i think is ridiculous and absurd. One article i read actually spent a great deal of time comparing how muhc money each of these disasters has pulled from generous people who care enough to help. One hurricane relief find spokesperson said "we've gotten much more money from this hurricane than from others..." which to me seems insane. To be talking about how much money people are donating, basically accusing the public of not pitching in to help, is ... well, i don't have a word for what i think that is, but awful sums it up, i think. The comparisons to the tsunami and 9/11 are equally absurd, because both of those were unpredictable tragedies without warning entirely. The hurricane had several days of warning. The city was evacuated. It's not like a tsunami occuring from an underwater earthquake that occured without warning. you can't compare them. yes, they are both large, water-related natural tragedies, but there's still no comparison in my mind.

the reaction time of the government and the organization of aid is another thing that i find insane. I can understand the frustration of new orleans residents who wonder at how their government could send aid in a day to asia, but it took 4 days to get the national guard to new orleans when there was plenty of advance warning saying that this would be a huge storm. of course, that frustration is probably not best vented by shooting at the people who are coming to help you because they didn't come fast enough... :dozey:

the whole situation is amazing. depressing and horrifying, but amazing. i know it must be terrible to be in the midst of hot weather, in the middle of a stagnant pond of toxic sludge, i honestly can't imagine how terrible it must be for those in the worst areas, but at the same time, i can't understand having the one thing you took with you when you left your home be your gun instead of photos, fresh water, etc. i can't understand shooting at helicoptors trying to rescue people. this tragedy seems to have brought out the utter worst of humanity. instead of people who are forced together into an unbearable situation banding together to help, they are fighting eachother. it makes me sad and cynical to ponder it.

anyway... share your thoughts....

[LaughingTurtle]

Hrm, a lot of things to discuss here so I guess I’ll just go in order, while trying to keep some semblance of cohesion and avoid politicking as much as possible …

First off I have to honestly say while I am disgusted with the behavior displayed by a minority of the people in NOLA I have to add that I am in no way shocked by it. People placed in an extreme situation such as this will do what they have to do in order to survive. Though it is beyond that point that you have the next level of people trying to take advantage of the situation which is where looting grocery stores for food becomes hitting best buy and acquiring a new TV.

Sure we all would like to have faith in humanity and believe that faced with such circumstances that we all would behave a certain way but the cynic in me says that’s only deluding yourself.

Next is the whole blame game speal. The mayor is on the radio crying foul to the Feds, the Feds are flying in with supplies and photo ops, and the people are just left spinning in circles. Personally I think everyone and no one are to blame in a time like this. It’s called a disaster for a reason and you can’t blame a hurricane on someone. Yet when it switched from a very bad event to a series of bad events which should not have happened is when blaming people comes into play.

I’ve seen a lot of fingers being pointed at Bush and the Federal government in general over being late, indifferent, and incompetent. I don’t presume to know what the man was thinking but in my comfy chair of hindsight I find it hard to fault him as much as many people seem to be doing. Number one, the federal government is never the first response to a state problem. Had they gone in early and say prevented a lot of the problems, certain state officials feathers might have been ruffled (of course not knowing what would have happened otherwise) . Then there are procedures to follow and petitions to be made for aid and a bunch of red tape…it’s a bureaucracy what did you expect?

Second of all NOLA did have an emergency plan in place but for some reason it was not followed. http://www.ohsep.louisiana.gov/plans/EOPSupplement1a.pdf Are you going to punish the feds for state officials dropping the ball? As for the mayor, it’s been a fact that they knew the state of repair the levees and flood walls were in and yet he did nothing or at least not enough to be so indigent now after the fact. Then the question of not enough buses for people to evacuate in…hrm http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20050901/capt.flpc21109012015.hurricane_katrina_flpc211.jpg looks to be a lot of unused buses to me…

As for people clamoring about how stupid it was to build a city under sea level…come on use your heads, the city wasn’t originally under sea level but due to the soft underlying sediment (and its growth) the city has over the years slowly sunk under its own weight. When they originally picked the spot I don’t think they had any inkling of what the future may hold, or you’re giving them too much credit. As for whether to let the sea claim it or rebuild; the majority of the historical areas (French quarter) is reportedly not as badly damaged/flooded as the rest of NOLA. After getting to visit the place in person (however briefly or inebriatedly ;) ) I would hate to see such an important piece of Americana lost to the ages.

Speaking about the comparisons I agree with you Anita, beyond the obvious generalizations, you just can’t compare them. Would write more but you pretty much summed it all up nicely.

And of course there are people that are going to try to turn this into a race issue. I’ve read a few disturbing, ludicrous, and sarcastic remarks about purposely delaying aid so as to get rid of “undesirables”

Bah save more for later…

[jabbernaut]

In contrast to the well assembled posts preceeding this one, I'm just gonna spout whatever comes to mind as I'm typing.

No one has ever needed to teach their baby how to be selfish, how to lie, how to steal, how to hit, or how to scream when he/she doesn't get her way... they are born knowing how. Why? Because it's all in our nature. And that's what I see when I look at the calamity running rampant in the flooded streets of NOLA. Human nature playing out. Violence and stupidity (inherent) taking opportunity to displace valor and reason (adopted). As LT said, it disgusts me, but doesn't surprise me.

I've never hated politics more. The fingerpointing is sickening. The president doesn't control the weather. Whitey didn't make the hurricane. Big oil is big oil because we all buy it and use it. If the globe wants to get warmer, I doubt there's much any policy is gonna do about it. Capitalizing on tragedy is lower than buried sh*t, so shut up and help out or just help out by shuttin' up.

Bush made history by declaring NOLA a disaster area BEFORE the storm struck. This supposedly gave FEMA and other diaster relief organizations a launched headstart on things... SO WHERE WERE THEY?? Where was our new and illustrious Department of Homeland Security? Where were the suits who charge us $2.50 for their plastic-tasting water? I'm not suggesting it's an easy thing to drop all and run to the rescue... but the delayed response was simply too inexcusably, unforgivably long in its coming.

I truly hope, and I have to believe, that there were miracles happening that we may never know about. People banding together to work the impossible, not bemoaning themselves as victims desparate for rescue, but lending a hand to one another for the sake of all and not just the sake of self. We've seen it before... maybe such stories will be told later, but I could really use some right now.

Hey George, brainstorm! Could we screw the war for just a smidge and bring some National Guard home to help the Americans who are suffering on their own soil?

People live below sea level, people live on fault lines, people live on the slopes of volcanoes... and we all say, "One of these days..." Well, NOLA just had one of those days. Eventuality isn't always inevitability, but things never did look promising for the Big Easy. Still, she's a great city that I hope will find her feet again.

Yikes, 4:30 am... I could keep going, or I could go to bed.

Bed it is.

[Kindred]

from CNN.com's list of the 10 deadliest hurricanes:

"9. New Orleans, Louisiana 1915
New Orleans, Louisiana
September 1915
Death toll: 275

This Category 4 storm caused Lake Pontchartrain to overflow its banks, killing 275 people. That scenario is one that hurricane experts don't like to ponder because if the city, surrounded on three sides by water, is hit by a major hurricane, the storm surge might inundate the city."

Too bad this country has its head so far up its own ass. If it hadn't, maybe we'd have learned and fixed things in the last 90 YEARS.

But then again, we're America, don't anybody presume to tell us what we should or should not do.

Disgusting we are, no?

[Corvus Corax]

I find it mind bogling to see how little is done to aid those people. And I find the thought of sending troops (even if they're national guards) who have been in a guerilla war zone untill recently in there with a full and open permission to shoot on their own countrymen. That somewhat spells drama waiting to happen to me.

Sri Lanka is sending $25 000, together with the rest of the world (We're sending three medical units, a logistical unit, a liason unit, 9 planes and at least 250 soldiers, which is a better move than the milk powder we sent to Ethiopia years ago :rolleyes: ). Holland is sending dyke inspectors (which will lead to many jokes, but is actually usefull)).

*sighs*

I hope that the situation over there will soon improve drastically.

And for those who haven't heard this yet: an interview with the mayor of New Orleans (http://edition.cnn.com/video/player/player.html?url=/video/us/2005/09/02/wwl.nagin.intv.affl&wm=9) (press F5 if the clicking doesn't stop)

[LaughingTurtle]

How little is done? Bush and Congress have signed and approved a $10.5 billion emergency spending package for emergency relief, they’ve sent in 4,000 troops with an additional 7,000 more to arrive sometime today. Army, navy, and coast guard have been aiding those stranded and searching for the lost. Out of the 20,000 people who took refuge in the Superdome, there are only around 2,000 left at the moment, who should be relocated within the next 24 hours.

Sure you all might say it’s about time, but things of this magnitude take time to plan, organize, and then implement. Hurricanes have come and gone in the past and history tells us that the aftermath just doesn’t magically disappear within a week. I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again, you can’t just play cowboy with these sorts of things and fly in with helicopters lickity split dropping boxes on people’s heads. There are procedures to follow and laws to adhere to. Pilots need to be called in, helicopters checked and readied (cause having a helicopter full of refugees crashing would make things all the better :rolleyes: ). Aid needs to be stockpiled and plans for its proper distribution laid out. You haven’t seen the Feds, FEMA, and whoever jump in before other hurricanes have struck in the past so why did you expect them to in this case? You can predict the coming of a hurricane all you want but you can’t predict how much damage they’ll do.

Could things have been done better, more efficiently, faster? Of course but could’ve, would’ve, and should’ve don’t build bridges (curse you RJ). The realm of accountability shouldn’t come into play until the more pressing issue of actually helping the people is resolved.

As for worries about sending in troops and all the media hype about “permission to shoot countrymen” is pure sensationalize bullshit. I’m not denying they got the authority but it’s not like they’re going to roll in on tanks and start shooting some poor guy with two loaves of bread under his arms and some milk. They have that permission so that if/when certain crazies or psychopaths decide it would be a fun idea to shoot on rescuers, refugees, etc they can PROTECT them.

[Buck]

I dont even know where to begin, so Im going to just rant for a bit aimlessly.

1. It has been known for quite some damn time that if New Orleans got hit by a Cat 4 or 5 hurricane it would become the next atlantis. There have been news specials and documentaries on said subject that I have seen since I was a kid.

Why hasnt it been fixed? Politics at its finest. Because improvements to the levies would cost a hell of a lot of money and are just a preventative "what if", there is no immediate political gain from it. Hence, politicians pass on the responsibilty of it all to the next one in office. On this note, I dont blame dubya for not fixing the levies. Ive seen quite a few articles talk about how he cut the budget to near nothing to fix this a while ago but this isnt anything outrageous in the politcal world. Quite the norm. I doubt even if Kerry ( the saviour? ) would have prevented this disaster.

What I can lay at dubya's feet is the following. The whole point of the National Guard is for just such emergencies. We were ill eqquiped and unprepared because they were in Iraq. What I also didnt like was that the Bush's first press release was laxidazical at best. This is a major crisis and George seemed more pouty about the his politcal figures plummeting than actually worrying about these people. Lots of help is finally showing up, but it took way too long to assemble. If the National Guard was at the state it should have been at, all that help would have arrived the day of/after the walls breached, not four days later. LT, Im by no means attacking your post, but that picture of the school buses. Umm, you do realize that they would need about 100x those buses, dont you?


Meanwhile I turn on the fricken news the day the city floods and all I see are news specials with over dramatized - story breaking - BULLSHIT... Instead of reporting the damn tragedy they were milking the fucken drama with back drops and music and poetic/verbose monologues. For Christ's sake -- what the fuck is wrong with the media?!??! They are more concerned about getting a fucken prize than reporting a tragedy...a REAL tragedy. FUCK THEM. I dont think I ever became so pissed at my life at a television in my whole damn life. When 9/11 happened, you didnt see that sort of shit on the news the day it happened. Why now?

As for the looting/rioting. The media again was labeling people looters who were raiding a destroyed walgreens. People are in a wasteland, hip deep in water and they need to scavenge for survival goods, and the media does this shit? WTH? Most of the looting/rioting etc... didnt happen until the onset of the third day. No one had shown up yet, and people were distraught and helpless.

To better understand why most of what happeped, happened, you need to remember that a major part of New Orleans is a very dangerous slum. Most of New Orleans was THIS dangerous BEFORE the hurricane. The only thing that kept in from being a media frenzy, was that there was a bit of cultural and economic segregation in the city bfore this disaster. You also need to realize, that the more horrendous of acts being commited are being commited by crack/coke addicts that cant get a fix. You ever see what withdrawl from heroine can do to someone?

Screw all this talk of how the true nature of man is evil --bullshit. No offense to anyone, but shit happens. For every one person raping there are 200 helping each other: including children and elderly climb out of attics and onto make shift boats.

You stick everyone in a dome, and have near no security and fast forward the clock three days. Very little food and water coming in, people will get violent and testy. Screw lack of preparedness. There was lack of reaction. Most of the globe was in shock the second day because no aid was showing up. WTH?


As for the comparisons to 9/11, the asian tsunami and Hiroshima. A royal fuck you to anyone who started that shit.

-9/11 was a premeditated attack against the US and its political/econimical mantra by a band of terrorists.
-The asian tsunami effected millions of people and killed 300,000+ people and happened with no warning/
-Hiroshima was the result of an executive order during time of war, to put an end to the shit.

All very different. Treat this event for what it is...<<Hurricane Katrine.>>


Long term effects:

Economically, this will hit us hard and heavy in the long run. As bad as the what is happening now may seem, its honestly not. The city was flooded in a somewhat "passive" way. Most city dwellers are alive.

However, we did lose a whole US city in one day, including the port. Something that has never happened before. From a global stand point, a lot of people around the globe will be hit and hit hard. The midwest is the bread basket of america and most of that gets exported out the mississipi. We are likely to hit a global recessions as soon as this winter. I recommend saving your cash and stocking up on necessities. Murphy's Law.


----
This post came across as very angry and it is. One of my classmates had a ton of friends on NO's and two of them are coming up here to live with her because they have absolutely nothing left and she still hasnt heard from some of them.

[Corvus Corax]

As for worries about sending in troops and all the media hype about “permission to shoot countrymen” is pure sensationalize bullshit. I’m not denying they got the authority but it’s not like they’re going to roll in on tanks and start shooting some poor guy with two loaves of bread under his arms and some milk. They have that permission so that if/when certain crazies or psychopaths decide it would be a fun idea to shoot on rescuers, refugees, etc they can PROTECT them.

Yes, indeed and this is needed, but my whole point was that using troops that are comming fresh out of Iraq that can be stressed and overreact is not a smart move.

And as for the "going cowboy" thingy, well... This is one of those situations where FAST action is needed. Indeed, there would have been mistakes being made, but those would have been outweighed by the direct help and the fact that the victims would see that the situation was being dealt with, instead of sitting in the heat seeing corpses floating through your street for four days.
I find it kind of odd that the bush administration impo cowboyed into Iraq, but is acting like vogons now.

and yeah, (what buck said)²

[lost]

one thing that really makes me angry is some statements i've heard/read saying people who 'chose not to evacuate' basically got what was coming... they don't actually say that, but hint at it... well how exactly were some of these people supposed to evacuate? many of them are poor/don't own cars/etc... if there had been some sort of coordinated evacuation before the storm i think it could have solved a whole lot of problems. and yes, they DID know what was coming and they DID know what could happen, they weren't nearly as prepared as they could have been. they could have just read the newspapers... (like that article from a few years ago about what could happen if This happened)... i understand that it takes time to organize somethign like this, but the organizing could have started much more effectively before the storm hit...

frankly, i've actually been watching fox for the last few days :ninja: ... though they like other media things have been focusing on mostly the negative stuff, they have very few commercials or breaks in their reporting. i occaisionally flip to another station and they are... on a commercial break or still showing their 'entertainment news.' this morning when chertoff was doing his lil press conference fox and one cnn station were the only ones showing it (i think, i may have missed a channel)....

along with all the suffering and dying, i've been thinking about the universities, mostly because my a relative of one of my friends was going to be a freshman at tulane university (or something like that).... they had just moved into the dorms, then had to evacuate... basically this person's first year (or hopefully just semester or maybe even just a few weeks) of college has been destroyed, they probably wouldnt' be able to get a scholarship like they had at tulane as a transfer at another college... that story just kinda made me sad....

seems like many peopel don't realize how serious this disaster is. people were panicking abotu the economy after september 11, always talking about it in school etc... but i've hardly heard a word outside of my family and the media about it... this will have a huge economic impact, not just with higher gas prices... pollution... in arizona gas stations are now allowed to sell less clean gas for a while.. in a place like phoenix, with a worthless public transportation system, this could make things bad quickly with the heat and millions of cars...

much as i like to blame bush for things, i don't think he can be held responsible for this as much as other people like chertoff and the governors... doesn't mean he couldn't have done more tho.. at least he can't start a war over this ;)

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

[Amelia]

I am also going to ramble a bit.

I love N'awlins. True I mostly go cause I have a conference and I usually spend the time in the touristy part of town, I still love it. I love the atmosphere. I love the old buildings. I love it all, even the humidity! I love the fact that I got to spend the only time there as a tourist with you all. It will always hold a special place in my heart. I always had this fantasy about retiring there living in the french quarter and being the "Weird Old Lady on Burbon Street" I doubt that will ever happen but I do think about it from time to time.

Now Katrina hit and hit NOLA hard. Im hurt to see all these people displaced, wanting to leave and cant, the help arriving so slow, the patients in the hospital dying, the people in the superdone and the convention center with no water or food and fearing for their safety. Im so glad provisions are finally getting there. Im happy that buses are finally getting there so they can evacuate.

I want the city to rebuild. I have faith that they will. I hope that they will learn from this so this wont happen again. Hopefully, it wont.

I dont think this is a racial problem its a class problem. The poor couldnt leave. I dont think that people thought it would happen. They have been so incredibly lucky as to have near misses for decades. Heck, we got there after the pumped the water out of another miss.

The one thing I dont like about the Red Cross is that when they have these pledge drives for things like Hurricane Katarina relief all the money raised wont go to help Hurricane Katarine relief only a portion goes to that. Some of it stays in your local area. I remember when the Red Cross started their 9/11 fund and everybody was all up in arms about how only a portion went to 9/11. I wonder if the same will happen this time. I know that this one club is having a fund raiser and Red Cross will be there so we can dontate blood...that will stay in the area, and raise money.....and some will go to the hurricane relief and some will stay in the area. Do people realize that?

Im amazed that Sri Lanka donated $25,000 to us to help us. They suffered a friggin Tsunami and they gave money to help. Im speechless.

[AquaFizz]

...I only skimmed...I kept trying to read but, I've got a kitten that hates me.

Some thoughts on things I've read:

1-I think the reaction time wasn't nearly as bad as it could have been. First, it didn't take any longer for them to react to New Orleans, than it did for them to react to Charlie and everything that happened in Florida last year. Hurricanes are a lot more unpredictable than people who haven't experienced them realize. Sure, they could have stationed help in Florida or TX to come reeling in the minute the hurricane started to disolved. But, overnight, the hurricane could have easily (yes, EASILY) taken a jog to the east or west and end up destroying the help the was there waiting. You also have to add in the fact that one of the major ways into New Orleans (I-10) isn't even usable (which..just turns my stomach considering I drove on that a year ago). There are a lot of factors that slowed the process down BESIDES politics. While I'm not saying that there wasn't political rediculousness involved-I do think it's important to take into consideration all of the other facts at hand.

2-Looters. No, people stealing bread aren't considered looters. Sure, sometimes that's what is SEEN when reporters talk about looters and then show camera footage. But, I can garuntee the people being sought and punished, aren't the people stealing food. They're the people stealing Nikes, Digital Cameras, and TVs. And there ARE people doing that...and they ARE looters-I don't care what kind of situation you're in...a digital camera is NOT a necessity.

3-Hurricane Preparedness. Thats a phrase all us Floridians are quite used to hearing. But, Nola is a little different than Florida. What exactly did you expect them to do? They had the one of the best levee systems buildable. The buildings...those have been there for ages. What do you propose that they have done to them? They're old...thats the attraction. To make them hurricane-proof, they'd have to rebuild them...thus-no longer an attraction.

4-Non-Evacuees. You're right. SOME of the people stranded didn't have the means to get out of their homes. No one is blaming them...and the gov't is doing all it possibly can to get those people rescued now that things have simmered. (however, it's a little hard to rescue people when OTHER crazy people are SHOOTING at the rescuers) The people that DESERVED to drown-were the tourists who, even after they've seen the news reports from other hurricanes..still thought it'd be cool to 'ride out the storm.' yeh, thats pretty rude. But, as we've talked about before...there are too many stupid people breeding in this world-in my opinion, we managed to get rid of a few.

5-More Hurricane Preparedness. The things that have happened with the Super Dome, are a tragedy. People being raped...people dying inside. It's crazy. YES, there should have been a better system put into place to help take care of these people. I don't see that as George Bush's fault, though. Its the local gov'ts fault. They should have had a plan set up DECADES ago! However, just like the looting and the idiot touristsand the people shooting at helicopters...People being RAPED is a little hard to control when you've got THAT many people. What SUCKS is that people are EVIL enough to take advantage of an already dismal situation. ..I hate people sometimes. Grr.

6-A small glimmer of hope. I don't feel like being angry. I need to go shopping and if I hate all humans when I leave-it's not going to be ANY fun. So, I want to close with this. Ohio has agreed to let all of it's college students who went down to LA for school, come back up and go to the school of their choice back at home. Tennesee as well. And TX, has opened its' public schools to the children now living in the Astro Dome for as long as they have to stay there. The start was slow. There is obviously evil and corrupt people in the world-and that makes me sad. But, I love see that random strangers across the US have been offering their homes to anyone who needs a place to stay and that all the states are working together to keep our children in as normal as possible of a life, despite their homelessness! Say what you want. But, again, I think it's much more important to look on the sunny side of life-it keeps one happy. So, now that I've defended some of the points I thought were a little harsh-I'm going to keep trying to find sunshine to stick in here ~nodnod~

PS-Reporters are EVIL!

[sir archely]

there are a lot of issues here, obviously, but i just want to comment on one thing.


As for people clamoring about how stupid it was to build a city under sea level…come on use your heads, the city wasn’t originally under sea level but due to the soft underlying sediment (and its growth) the city has over the years slowly sunk under its own weight. When they originally picked the spot I don’t think they had any inkling of what the future may hold, or you’re giving them too much credit. As for whether to let the sea claim it or rebuild; the majority of the historical areas (French quarter) is reportedly not as badly damaged/flooded as the rest of NOLA. After getting to visit the place in person (however briefly or inebriatedly ) I would hate to see such an important piece of Americana lost to the ages.

I just watched a sort of documentary about NOLA that was on public tele last night, and from the portion i saw, this is actually wrong. There is a dry season and a wet season to that area regarding the level of the river. When the French chose the place for new orleans, it was during the dry season. It was still below sea level, just not flooded at that point in the year. And when the wet season came... dun dun dunnn... it flooded. So they built a little wall to keep the waters back. And so was born the levee. And, of course, the river eventually got around the wall further up. So the levee was extended. And it's been extending for something like 300 years now. It is apparently one of the largest single engineering projects ever undertaken in the united states. The problem is that the flooding of the Mississippi (anyone remember ancient Nile agricultural trends?) deposited the sediment and silt back and the land kept being restored. With the levee, all of that valuable muck is basically washed out into the gulf instead. That's the major reason so much of the area (and large large portions of the wetlands) are disappearing.

Honestly, the entire region would be far better off if NOLA was written off. Sad to say in one sense, but a massive reconstruction effort would probably be much more sad in the long term. Not that i really expect that to happen, but still.

[Nachtnoir]

OK, I guess its time for my 2 cents. As someone who actually is from NOLA and lived there a good chunk of my life, I have a few things to say.

First, The levee system and anti-flood program in place was not designed for anything above a CAT-2 storm. In the past it has indeed withstood weak 3s, but it was never supposed to stand against a 4 or 5. A Cat-5 system had been designed, and the Army Corp of Engineers were supposed to have begun construction in 2001. But.....it was deemed more important to send troops and money to Iraq, so the new levee system was put on hold. This was not a Mayoral or State level decision. Think much higher. Senators from Louisiana fought as hard as they could to keep this from happening, but were basically told that it coudl wait.

Second. The Eastern side of NOLA is the lower income area of the city. The reason most of the people that remained in the city are minority is because they are the ones that live there and could not afford transportation out fo the city. And if they could get a ride out, they had nowhere to go. So of course there are alot of african american people trapped in the city. What sickens me the most is that the National Guard took so long to get in there. The reason for this is that over 80% of the state's guard units are fighting half way across the world. The Guard is not supposed to be there. The Guard's charter is to protect the security of the homeland, to help in time of disaster and lastly to defend national interests. Their mandate in a foreign nation is no more than 30 days. Some guard units have been over there much, much longer. So, since most of LA's Guard Units are overseas, all the guardsmen sent to NOLA had to come from other states. This being the case, I think that 4 days is pretty good.

There are parts of the city that never got flooded, which is good, but these are sections that are furthest away from the downtown. Further away from the river. Oschner's hospital is dry and has power and has been running at 200% capacity since the storm hit.

We also have to remember that more than one city has been lost to the storm. Gulfport and Biloxi, Ms. were both ravaged. Pass Christian, birthplace of Robin Williams is also gone. As someone from NOLA, I am glad my home has gotten alot of the attention, but ppl and homes have been lost in other places.

I have friends and family all over the area down there. Some I have not heard from, not directly, and some I have heard from. With power out all the way to Jackson, Ms. and terrible storm damage spreading all the way to Mobile, AL, it won't be months til things are back to normal, rather it will be years. Parts of NOLA will never be the same. Sure the historic areas and the tourist sections will be rapidly fixed, a majority of the city's income comes from gaming and tourism. For the city to have any hope of rebuilding that will have to be up and running.

There has been alot of armchair quarterbacking about it. Believe it or not, and I hate saying this, I really do, but Bush is not the one calling the shots as to whether FEMA should or should not have sent troops in before the storm or had them ready. The National Guard is under the direct command of the Govenor of each state. There were actually troops mustered and ready for deployment in Ms. Camp Shelby, the largest military base in the south, had sever thousand troops on standby the day before the storm hit. Too bad Camp Shelby is in Hattiesburg, Ms. It too was hit fairly bad by the storm. But those troops had issues to worry about in their own state. So, Bush may have made a mistake or two, but it isn't completely his fault for the troops taking 4 days to get to NOLA. OK it might be, he is the one that somehow got control of the guard units and sent them to Iraq.

I remember when I was a kid being evacuated. The day or two before the storm they came on TV and said the Govenor has issued an executive order that the entire parrish be evacuated. Please be orderly and vigilante, but think about those around you. Those that can not find transportation should call this number................

They seemed to be able to get enough busses for a pre-storm evacuation then. I wonder why they didn't this time.

[Nachtnoir]

Honestly, the entire region would be far better off if NOLA was written off. Sad to say in one sense, but a massive reconstruction effort would probably be much more sad in the long term. Not that i really expect that to happen, but still.


Now I know you just did not say this. Don't make me come over to Philly and whoop up on you. :p

NOLA will rebuild. This time the federal government will not pull the funding out from under them for the new storm/flood system that they originally promised, and my city will be beautiful and happy again.

I just begain thinking of all the things in my life that happened there. I will be rather displeased if the places that I lost my virginity were not there, or the place where I had my first beer, or the place that I had my first kiss, or my favorite restaurant, the best sandwich shop, the best art museum, the best jazz bar, the best zoo........should I go on?

[lost]

another thing i've been thinking about... what would happen if there was a horrible earthquake off in california? or a terrorist attack? looking at what is happening right now it hardly seems the government would be able to cope with another disaster....

[bastic_princess]

Thursday night I sat and watched one of those news specials covering the disaster. I spent a good portion crying over the sight of small children and babies that were so dehidrated they could hardly hold there heads up. But in the midst of all of the horrible footage, they covered a story about a small band of renegades . they called themselves "the pirates". It all started when a social worker was having trouble finding a way out of the city, and a woman gave her the key to her appartment building. The social worker found a few others in need of refuge and took them with her. They were lucky because inside they found a large stockpile of fresh water on one of the upper levels, and a small amount of food. It's stories like this that prove to me that we as humans aren't a bunch of evil people, and that sometimes tragedy brings out the best in people.

While reading a previous post I was outraged to see that someone wrote that the tourists who were in the area at the time deserved to die. In the group of pirates was a woman who had gotten stranded while vacationing from scottland. She was considering postponing her vaction at the news of the possible hurricane, but she was assured by her travel agent that it had been switched to a possible mild tropical storm and nothing more. Now I don't see how it was her fault for having been lied to! I'm sure that many others suffered because of similar sircumstances, and it is wrong to place all travelers into one category of stupid people who deserved what they got.

[ChronoDmin]

Sigh... there so much to say... both the good and the bad.... i don't know where to start and if i would stop once i did start.

[LaughingTurtle]

Here are some interesting pics I found on the web, one of NOLA Before (http://filebox.vt.edu/users/mimille2/NOLABefore.jpg) and one of NOLA After (http://filebox.vt.edu/users/mimille2/NOLAAfter.jpg)

Here's a link to a website with a bunch of similar sat. photos: http://ngs.woc.noaa.gov/katrina/090E30A_KATRINA.HTM

[ChronoDmin]

pretty much tells it all http://www.flashplayer.com/animation/foamyhurricanekatrinareport.html

[Anita Blake]

the new thing that has me in a mild outrage is the media, and (some of the rest of) north america. headline today: "Thousands dead: who's to blame?"

who's to blame?! who's to blame? I fail to understand how blame can be laid in a natural disaster. I understand criticism going to the adminstration at it's various levels for delays in response, but blame? It's ludicrous! sit there and say "if only so-and-so had such-and-suched instead of this-and-that'd" instead of doing something yourself to find a solution.

blame? blame jesus. blame allah. blame science. blame george bush. blame the residents of louisiana for not having protested louder and more to get the levees fixed sooner. blame the city founders for building there. blame the rainclouds. blame beuroracy. blame sir isaac newton. blame the french. blame the americans. blame al quaida. blame mr. Jim b. pattinson of 1543 72nd st.

apportioning blame won't make the dead un-dead. apportioning blame won't help those still living who need help.

it's something that is so rampant in our society, to seek out a plausible scapegoat and punish it rather than to put the past behind us and search out a productive solution. this is a huge factor in corporate culture in north america and it's seeping outward, and is in no way helping! so personally, i blame the blame-game. it causes all kinds of other social ills, why not death and destruction?

[Kindred]

Yes, but Anita, Blame sells. THe media is not there to inform or to educate, it's there to sell commercial time. And blame sells like sex and scandal. Frustrating, I agree whole heartedly. Just think about how long we're going to hear about this once the lawsuits start up. THat way the lawyers can tap into some of the money the media is hogging right now.

[Dregs]

It's much easier to blame someone else than to take responisbility for oneself.

~points at Mr pattinson~ let's get him!

See? Much easier.

[Amos]

i bet we could get a few ratings points if we blamed the whole hurricane on mr pattinsons kinky sex-life.

[Lyle]

thats between he and i mr. james. i'll thank you to stay out of it. :mad:

[Dregs]

i bet we could get a few ratings points if we blamed the whole hurricane on mr pattinsons kinky sex-life.

Or mr. pattinson's flagrant disregard for disabled parking signs. I'll call Ray Martin right now.

[QuirkyTemplate]

Pattinson!!!

>shakes fist at sky<

[Apoc]

hmm just some random apoc thoughts...basically my two cents only i'm just mumbling my thoughts on whats running through my mind when nola is mentioned...i'm not gonna be explaining myself very well...but yeah ~sighs~

Loss of face as those in countries look to america and see this incompetence....these are the ones who are here to help us? they can't even help themselves...they must be saying...with worried frowns as the veil is lifted to americas inner third world ignored darkness ~shakes head~ A tragedy yes...awful...shocking and beyond words...all this because it hit new orleans though...hell Mumbai got mauled by the monsoons only a few weeks before, but very little was said on that...then why? because its america...and the strength they show outwardly and around their borders and upon their face is one of power and unflinching might...it is not often you see its dark tumor, hidden behind its golden heart...thats why...it was on show for all to see like a model falling on her ass...everyone foresaw nolas poor situation happeneing...it was just a matter of when...

You can hope for alot to be learnt from this tragedy...but one hope beyond all others is that should something of this magnitude happen again (san fran earthquake being on my mind the most concerning) then the clean up and rescue will be handled with far greater competance....

Katrina was awful...and what happened in new orleans was a horrific tragedy...but the aftermath...the aftermath was a disaster that has wounded america deeply.

~stumbles off~