Reputation Discussion

[sir archely]

A few people have expressed their dislike of the current system of reputation, for a wide variety of reasons. They appropriately made their complaints known to an admin, and as such, we recently discussed and evaluated the reputation system amongst ourselves.

We have determined that a change isn't necessary at this time. However, any further comments (whether expressing positive or negative viewpoints) are more than welcomed. We continue to evaluate and discuss this issue and by no means set anything in stone.

Comments are welcomed both in this thread and/or in PMs directed to an admin. I'd only ask that we keep the discussion in hand. This thread is more about making your opinion known (and why) then about debating. Do not be surprised if your post does not generate a response.

Thank you.

[Amos]

I'm quite happy with it the way it is :)

[wiggin]

I've disabled mine. Reputation is about as stupid of a may to rank members as is post count. Who cares?

Ender

[Amos]

I've disabled mine. Reputation is about as stupid of a may to rank members as is post count. Who cares?

Ender
post count is based on quantity, this system is based on quality. they are completely different. the reputation system is about rewarding people for posting, ah, for lack of a better word.. worthwhile posts *nods*

or at least that's my feelings about it.

[wiggin]

James - it's actually just people rewarding others for whatever reason they see fit. I could choose, say, to give rep points to anyone who mentions the color orange in their posts. It's certainly not an objective system, and as such is subject to board politics, something I detest.

I'd prefer just to let others see me as I am - form their own impression. Similarly, I would like to give each person the benefit of the doubt and not measure them on the basis of some meaningless points scale.

I know I'm being harsh, and I'm sure the mods thought this was a good idea. But I personally find it a waste of time - just me, of course.

Ender

[QuirkyTemplate]

It seems to me that it's more of a thing that people can comment on your posts. The number of 'reputation points' doesn't really seem to be the interesting part of it, in my opinion. :)

[Malcor Sylverwood]

Quirk, thats pretty much my thought too...

[Amos]

hmmm. actually, upon reflection, i very much agree. i admit i do like getting points, i'm shallow like that, but tis the comments that truly please me :)

[wiggin]

Well, then why don't we just have a comment system? Disable the points and the stupid green icons, so no one gets miffed about "you have more/less than I do!", and just let users send in a private and annonymous comment about a user's post.

Ender

[sir archely]

it's actually just people rewarding others for whatever reason they see fit. I could choose, say, to give rep points to anyone who mentions the color orange in their posts. It's certainly not an objective system, and as such is subject to board politics, something I detest.

I'd say this is a postivie aspect of the rep system. It allows anyone to express their opinion, based on whatever scale they want. Certainly it's subject to board politics...as are PMs, posts, threads, etc.


Well, then why don't we just have a comment system? Disable the points and the stupid green icons, so no one gets miffed about "you have more/less than I do!", and just let users send in a private and annonymous comment about a user's post.

First, nobody can see the points, it's only a vague generalization.

Second, everyone is given the option to disable the "stupid green icons" if they wish. As you have. This does not preclude someone receiving reputation points, just the showing it on the board.

[Buck]

Hmm, something Ive thought on but never mentioned myself. I agree for the most part with ender. I enjoy the responses I get when I write something good. But at the sametime I dont put much weight in the green dots b/c they are heavily weighted by board politics and foolishness.

I think a proper compromise would be of that where disabling the "green-dots" didnt give you a "black-dot". I think it would be better for those that have it disabled not have a "dot" at all. Somehow I dont think that is possible the way it is set-up, but thta would be the better way none the less.

As far as my opnion goes, the "green dots" seem to serve as a reminder of whose who and whose not sort of mentallity that already exists too much in our world. I always felt comfortable around you all b/c of the lack of that label. I vote "no-dot".

Having said that, I appreicate the admins discussing the matter seriously.

[wiggin]

I'd say this is a postivie aspect of the rep system. It allows anyone to express their opinion, based on whatever scale they want. Certainly it's subject to board politics...as are PMs, posts, threads, etc.
Well, the point is, PMs, posts, threads, etc. are for the purposes of communication. We're talking to each other about things. Points are a superfluous "assessment" of the "worth" of a poster. I've been on boards where there are point systems in place, and people tend to put far too much emphasis on those, rather than on anything else useful, like making the board a worthwhile place to be.


First, nobody can see the points, it's only a vague generalization.

Second, everyone is given the option to disable the "stupid green icons" if they wish. As you have. This does not preclude someone receiving reputation points, just the showing it on the board.
Well, it's good that the admins chose to do both of those things. Yet it doesn't change the fact that seeing those green dots (however many a person has) does affect how you look at said person. On every board I am a member of, I disable my "reputation" or "member ranking" or whatever if at all possible. It's not because I think I'm likely to get rated badly - I just don't want people to see me as a "four star" or "three dot" or whatever person. Same reason why I use custom titles, so people can't see my user status (although this is often available in profiles regardless).

I put value in substance and attitude. So, if a particular member I see acts like a complete idiot/bigot/spammer/etc., I just choose to not read any further posts of him/her. Very simple. I think that people can form their own rankings in their head, without the outside imposition of these points to bias our thinking.

BTW, please don't take this as an attack by any means - most of this board seems well designed and clearly thought out. I just have a reflexive dislike for this sort of system, and as you were asking for opinions.... well, that makes you better than most board admins I know. So thanks. :)

Ender

[WolfBrother]

It's all a popularity contest really

[LaughingTurtle]

Heh don't worry ender, we all understand you're only expressing your opinion, and not attacking the system. We all agree that it's much better to hear any dissenting views rather than have people harbor their disagreement on the inside and what not. Tis not healthy for any community, and would help no one.

Personally, I really enjoy the rep system. As stated by fellow members who are for it, I believe the comments are the best part.

Buck - Stating that it's influenced by board politics is really a moot point as arch pointed out pretty much everything here is. As for a no dot opinion, that is not possible with this system.

Wiggin - I don't see the rep system as any less of a form of communication than a PM or thread. The "thing" being talked about is the member's post. All it is, is a different way of going about having said communication. I also think you have to ask yourself when you go to those other sites is it really the points system that's making the board a less than worthwhile place to be or is it the members who can't seem to distinguish between a good quality poster and a poster with a high rank. Because members are what make a community, not whether it has a system of ranking or not.

Though, I've found another use for the system besides merely commenting on people's posts. It's also a way to gauge someone's maturity level. If one bases their opinion of someone largely on the number of green dots or fancy stars they have, then that person has more issues going on than merely reputation. People will have their biases and form their own opinions of members regardless of a rank or status. What you see as superfluous, I see as fun and helpful.

:)

[WolfBrother]

I'm not trying to start any fights here. So please don't read me the wrong way.

But it seems to me that you don't really want to see it the way I do. The only way I can see this turning out is as a popularity contest. It's based on who you know, and how well you're liked.

I've been in numerous conversations with all the admins about this subject. It's because of me that this thread is here. So I understand why you feel that the point system is a good thing. But personally I feel that in the end it's not going to work

[night faerie]

ok well to start off, we admins all believe that our members are what makes this site great & so your opinions do count for quite a lot with us. Thanks for noticing. :) That said, we obviously arent going to run out & change things the second someone complains about it, so we weigh these things as carefully as we can.

One of the great things about having a bunch of admins, in this case, six, is that we all have our own opinionated voices, and we conflict & compliment each other all the time. Diversity rocks socks, produces a richer, fuller, more complex whole.
With regard to the matter at hand, we have discussed it at GREAT length. Some members have complained, some have complimented, and we want a wider view of the whole population than the few who have contacted us individually. So thanks for sharing, and please more people chime in, even if its just a few words pro or con.

Damn, why am I always so long-winded? :rolleyes: Anyway, I personally tend to feel that while the comment feature of the rep system is fun and convenient, the degrees of reputation are... well, I dont think we need preconceived labeled levels. I dont like that the rep system is tied to advancement and privileges. Altho, we havent had many complaints about the privileges since we modified the system early on,now that people have become more active, it does seem that everyone is pretty much able to do what they want.

My one request at this time is this: Please sign your name when giving rep. because the messages are anonymous, it stops being a form of communication if someone doesnt sign their name.

Thx :)

[Anita Blake]

well, i like the reputation system, personally. i agree that it would be cooler if the comments had a forced signature or something, but it's cool. I don't even mind the anonymous ones so much, except when people do weird things like make a good comment ie "i really like this!" followed by a disapproval. :dozey:

it's interesting because it shows you what people think, even if they don't feel like posting on the thread, just to comment that they agree with you, or that they disagree with you.

I don't really pay attention to how many dots people have, but it's interesting to see how well other people have rated a person. It's a little like mind-reading that way, and i think it's really cool. Sure, it's a popularity contest if you look at it that way, but there are no losers and no winners, so it's not much of a contest. And even if it is a "popularity contest", it's not like it's based on who has the best shoes and the nicest hair and the most perfect teeth. It's based on who said somethign that people enjoyed hearing, or who didn't. Is that really so bad? I mean, as popularity contests go (and i don't think that the rep system is one) that's pretty honorable.

[WolfBrother]

Anyway, I personally tend to feel that while the comment feature of the rep system is fun and convenient, the degrees of reputation are... well, I dont think we need preconceived labeled levels. I dont like that the rep system is tied to advancement and privileges.That's what I've been saying for a while now. I like the idea of the system. But I don't like that other members basically get to decide how I advance.


And yeah Anita. People have told me that it isn't a popularity contest unless you look at it that way. And I'm sorry but that's not true. It's a popularity contest simply because you only get rep from the people that like you. If you don't like someone are you going to give them any rep? I don't think so.

I like the idea of the comments. I like to hear what other people have to say. But it does make you feel kinda crappy when people don't respond to your posts. Or give you much rep. If there were some other way to redo the system I might not think it so bad

[Waffles]

Thing is, it isn't that important. It only gets crappy when people get serious about it, and start abusing the system. I really like giving out rep, cos it means I can make those one line comments about posts without having to spam the board or write a whole pm. I don't give a hoot about receiving points, but its good to get comments on posts. Personally, I think, if it aint broke, don't fix it. Ignore rep if you have a problem with it. Seriously.... there are more important things. Oh and WB.... I don't see what your problem is, cos according to your definition, you're the 14th most popular person here :dozey:

[WolfBrother]

The point isn't the popularity. It's that other members get to choose how you advance. If people don't like you that much then you're not going to get very far.

I don't mind the comments. If you want to comment on a person's post. That's fine. If you want to give them points for their posts. That's fine. But I don't like that those points are the basis for how you advance on the forum

[Alexia]

Hmmmm... reppie-dots are pretty nifty, I reckon. I admit, I don't count much for them, and I'm not about to go checking everyone's tally to see how well I am compared to others - competition just doesn't seem to be part of it. however, I do think it's a novel aspect of the site, and yes, it DOES give people the opportunity for people to comment on other people's posts in a different way.
While favouritism may be a reason for given points to some, I know that for me it really isn't. If I read a post and it really touches my heart, I would very much like to add to someone's reppie-dots in a way of saying 'thankoyu for sharing that with me', you know? By the same token, if something is out of taste, it is a handy way of showing someone that their comments are out of taste and unappreciated, thankyouverymuch.
It's clear there are two sides to the story. If you are in favour of reppie-dots, you have the option to use them. If you are not in favour of reppie-dots, then do not use them, or even disable the option. Simple enough, right? :)

[WolfBrother]

Thing is. The people that don't see things the way I do. Are the people that got the free ride to the last rank.

Most of those members aren't far enough to be an enchanter yet either. But they are. They don't know the kind of points you have to get to become an enchanter because they got to skip that part

[prophetic_joe]

My feeling is this, the comments portion is a great idea even the points aren't bad, but like nf and WB said connecting them to advancement is the part that is bad. I mean you can connect it to names and such like with the rep dots but to not allow someone to have certain priveledges because of thier rank is just bad when based on this system. Just because some people give out rep genuinely does not mean that others do as well so now not only are the popular people the ones with better rep they also get to do more than the unpopular ones as well. I'm sorry but my feeling is that if you contribute to the board and are only stating opinions then you deserve all the priviledges as everyone else, and if you are only contributing in a negative way then the mods have the option to edit or delete the posts and ban the member. I shouldn't be allowed to keep WB or Waffles or Wiggin or anyone from reaching the next level simply because they say something I disagree with. If you are going to have a priviledge system fine but make it based on something solid like time being an active user or something not on how popular a poster you are.

Keep the rep but lose the priviledges being connected to it. We're all friends and all equally important to our forum community so shouldn't we all really have the same rights and cool nifty options?

[Malcor Sylverwood]

OK, first off, the way the system is currently designed is that everyone who hangs around at all makes it to the 'scribe' group. Scribes can do everything on the board that is needed to post. There are only 2 things that the Enchanter group gets in addition, sigs and to see Who's Online. And, to be honest, if you're a scribe and you want a sig, all you have to do is write it manually. ;) Who's Online we don't want everyone to have for technical reasons. Thats it. So, IMO, the fact that rep is tied to advancement is 99.9% meaningless because it changes almost nothing. Now, if some is participating and can't make it out of the 'Novice' group, feel free to PM me and I'll fix that :D

As far as WB's point on people being in Enchanter without meeting the criteria...all the one I know about are the people who happend to get selected to help us build and test the site, for that they get a little reward--no big deal.

This is all IMHO, of course...~grin~

-Malcor "Admin" Sylverwood

[~KA3AK~]

Ok, I just want to give some feedback towards rep.

First off, I agree with those people who say that rep should not be tied to the advancement system. In the other hand, the advancement system has already been simplified so much that it does not really matter. I mean I'm satisfied with being a scribe and I'm positive that anyone can easely advance from apprentice to scribe. So I think that problem was already fixed.

I also think that comments should be forced. Especially when you get negative rep. If rep is just another form of communication points with no comment defeat that purpose.

Another thing I wanted to mention is negative rep. It tends to be abused. I don't think anyone on this board is offencive on purpose. When I unintentionaly offend someone and get some negative rep for that, it does not bother me. I can understand the person giving it. However, when we have a discussion (like in the Deep Thoughts section) and I get negative rep for one of my discussion posts, that I have a problem with. It defeats the whole purpose of a discussion, because in a discussion everyone deserves to have an opinion. For example, let's say I didn't agree with Malc's last post. Instead of posting my argument, I can just give him negative rep and move on.

At first I was against the rep system as a whole. I changed my mind. Although the current one has some glitches, I am for A rep system existing. True, it is a little redundant considering we have posts and PMs for feedback. Yet, if many people like it, why shouldn't we have it? I mean those of us against the rep system can always turn it off. As for me, I don't really give a damn about my dots. i do however like letting people know that I liked their posts.

Again, these are just my ideas. They are not suggestions to change something (except for forcing comments ;) ), just things to be considered.

__________________
hehe, a manual signature :D :cool:

[Malcor Sylverwood]

Fine, I'll do both! I disapprove, KA3AK! ~goes to give negative rep~ :p

heh, j/p obviously.

Sorry, its in my nature to throw in things like this for no apparent reason... ~flees~

-Malcor "Fool" Sylverwood

[WolfBrother]

As far as WB's point on people being in Enchanter without meeting the criteria...all the one I know about are the people who happend to get selected to help us build and test the site, for that they get a little reward--no big deal.Yeah I know that. And it's bullshit

And from what I've been told. I'm helping to test the site right now. That's what I was told soon as I joined. So why am I still a scribe?

[Malcor Sylverwood]

:rolleyes: Fine, the people we brought in for the alpha test were given this small reward. END OF STORY

[WolfBrother]

Again. Bullshit

AND

There's someone else here. Who came in on August 20th. Only has 16 posts. Who is now the 3rd rank. That shouldn't be possible

AND

The whole free upgrade for your alpha testers should only make their opinion of the system worth less. Because they don't have to deal with how rep works. All they do is get it. It has no effect on how the forums work for them. Because of that. They don't see the system like the rest of us do

[Malcor Sylverwood]

Lets keep this discussion civil, shall we please? Thank you.

-Malcor "Admin" Sylverwood

[WolfBrother]

Yeah. What part exactly didn't you like?

It's all true

[Malcor Sylverwood]

Mostly the unnecessary profanity and the confrontational tone...

-Malcor "admin" Sylverwood

[WolfBrother]

I'll refrain from using it then.

But my arguement still stands. Everything I have said is true. And I have yet to hear any solid reasoning for it

[WolfBrother]

Incase anyone is interested I lost 10 points for stating MY opinion.

I don't think that's right

[Cloric the Cleric]

Actually, WB, I have to disagree. I was the 10th person to sign up on the site, and I belong to the blue group (Enchanter, I guess, I really don't pay attention) BUT Alexia and Anita, Enchanters both, and QT, a scribe, have more Rep points than I do. And I have absolutly no problem with it, besides the fact that the comments aren't forced.

Yeah, I appreciate the fact that as an "Alpha Tester" I was advanced to the Enchanter Status, but that's the way it works. You get in on the ground floor of something, you get more out of it. Hell, Wendy and Mike are both Admins and they have near to or less Rep points than I do, and are they griping? No.

I like the comments. In fact, I get annoyed when they aren't there. I like the green dots, it makes me feel appreciated and important. Am I upset that someone who has been here for a less amount of time has more than I do? Not really. Anita, Alexia, and QT all post a hell of a lot more than I and so probably have a higher number of quality posts. And that brings up one reason I DO like the rep system. I can send a message to the starter of inane and, IMHO, stupid, threads a message. Granted, I could just pm them, but this makes my displeasure a bit more...hmm...public, possibly...permanent,definitely.

My personal opinion: You don't like the way the rep system works, fine. Disable it, as Wiggin snd Nightfairy have done, and if you're truly upset about the usergroups, then I'm sure the admins would be glad to discuss an alternative method of advancment, though I leave that matter entirely up to their discretion.

[WolfBrother]

I have talked to the admins about this matter for sometime. THIS is the only method of advancement. Other than the free ride that the lucky people who got to know about the site in advance got.

I'm not griping about points. I could care less about points. I want the 3rd rank. It was made TOO difficult to reach it. Especially with this system

[Malcor Sylverwood]

Incase anyone is interested I lost 10 points for stating MY opinion.

I don't think that's right
No, as I explained in the message, you lost post for my dislike of profanity and for being confrontation when this had been a very cool, very civil discussion. Now, I'd like to let that topic come back to the forefront and not this tangent.

[WolfBrother]

No, as I explained in the message, you lost post for my dislike of profanity and for being confrontation when this had been a very cool, very civil discussion. Now, I'd like to let that topic come back to the forefront and not this tangent.
Oh. Well I posted that before our message. Much like you took points from me before I could comply.

I was not confrontational either. I stated what was wrong with the system and why. It's my opinion just like everyone elses

[WolfBrother]

Which is another reason why this system is wrong. It's like sayin'. I don't like that person or what they have to say. So i'll just take points from them so they can't advance. Which is exactly what just happened to me. And it was for something so small that I should maybe have lost 1 point. Not 10

[sir archely]

First off, to address the point that has been made directly and indirectly, in both PMs and on here, that the reputation system as it stands discourages opinions. The nature of the reputation system actually has the opposite effect. When people make the point about discouragement of differing opinions, they often have their own in mind. A reputation comment is certainly ones opinion, being able to be expressed. The fact that anonymity is allowed simply gives the person the ability to express their opinion without have to justify, explain, or otherwise be confronted about it. In this last case with Malcor, he is entitled to his opinion about WB's swearing just as WB is entitled to the opinion that he wants to swear, so, Malcor made his known, as did WB. I don't see the problem. (On an aside, I did ask that this discussion be kept in hand in the first post.)

On it being a popularity contest. I'd like to give members here as much credit as I think they deserve. I think it's a good group of people, why should I think they'd resort to "site politics"? I get the sense that the majority of people express reputation without regard for who posted it, and in no way base their entire opinion of a poster on the little green boxes in the corner. I know i've certainly given reputation points when i think someone has made a good point, even when i don't agree with them. And i know others have done it as well.

I'm not totally convinced it should be tied to advancement either. However, as it stands, everyone is pretty much advancing along as expected. (There has been one person who moved ahead before expected, without meeting the requirements, but we don't know why yet.) As Malcor has said, there isn't much more you can do with an Enchanter rank that you couldn't do already with Scribe. (In fact, since the site was created we've lowered the requirements for Scribe, and increased the abilities a user has at the lower levels.) It's difficult to see what motivates someone to be so eager to reach Enchanter, other than impatience. It isn't a status symbol. It's a way of filtering out not-so-nice users. It shouldn't be regarded as anything else.

[WolfBrother]

Perhaps it shouldn't be seen as anything else. But it is. That's the way it is.

My problem with the ranks is that. As I have stated before. People were given a free ride. These people were given that free ride because THEY were selected to join back in May, June, and July.

I'm not trying to be a prick here. So please don't take this next part the wrong way.

There was no contest. There were no drawings. There were just the admins. Picking the people they liked the best. I'm sorry. But that's the way it is.

If you feel that the rep system shouldn't be tied to advancement then why is it? You all know me. You know that I'm a good person. That I don't 'cause trouble on boards. And that I'm not one of the "not-so-nice" users. And that the majority of us aren't. So why do we have to go through and get rep and have rep taken from us, to advance?

[sir archely]

There was no contest. There were no drawings. There were just the admins.

What exactly is your point? That we should have picked out of a hat? We should have had a contest? Of course we choose, we also chose the colors, the layout, the icon...



If you feel that the rep system shouldn't be tied to advancement then why is it?

Please read more carefully in the future.

[WolfBrother]

I read it. And knew what it said ;)

I'm just sayin' that if you don't agree with it. Why is it still in effect.

And I know that you all choose how the board looks. That's not the point. The point is that there are better ways to do things. You don't just have to pick all the people you like the most to do things. You basically picked all your friends and said. "I'll give you the highest rank at my new board. All you have to do is post on it before the site opens."

[Alexia]

You basically picked all your friends and said. "I'll give you the highest rank at my new board. All you have to do is post on it before the site opens."

I seriously doubt that. :dozey:

[QuirkyTemplate]

Come on man, chill some. So a couple people got to play on the site before other people. And then they got special 'ranks' (... that I am just now finding out about). I suppose it's not exactly perfect, but they couldn't very well go around asking for applications and what not. The first choice is to ask your friends for help, and because they help, give them a kind of 'reward.' It's just a string of text man, it's not that important in the grander scheme of life. :)

But before I go, I did have something to say .... So I'm a 'Scribe' huh? I oppose this! Scribes were thought of as being very well-off in their day. To rank someone as a Scribe at the start is to make light of the responsibility of the Scribe. This is insolent, and therefore the name 'scribe' should be changed to something more menial. :D

[WolfBrother]

I seriously doubt that. :dozey:
Again. It's easier for everyone that joined before the official opening to disagree with me. Because they didn't have to do anything to get the ranks they have now.

If they all had to work themselves up to enchanter then it would be different for them. But they didn't. So they don't know what it's like to have to work yourself up to it.

Especially when points can be taken away from you

And I'd like to know. What exactly did they do to help test the site? I bet they did exactly what we're doing now. Only difference is we don't get rewarded for it

[Malcor Sylverwood]

LOL...actually...you got promoted and didn't notice. The beginning is 'Apprentice' ;)

[Alexia]

I don't know if I'm one of those early birds you are referring to, WB... I think I started in July, maybe? Can't remember. Anywho, when I first joined, and even still, I didn't know, nor did I care what my rank was. As far as I'm concerned, the coloured names, the number of reppie-dots or anything associated with status at this site is either important or otherwise considering the person. Me, I couldn't give two hoots about whether a person is a Scribe, an Enchanter or... uhm... is it Apprentice? Ya, that.
What is a solid fact is that there are Admins to this site that put in their efforts tirelessly to make sure things are going well, the pepps are happy, and that the functions in this site are varying, different and fun. With these options comes the member's choice of whether or not to participate in the function. Some choose to, some do not.
As has already been addressed in this thread, their have been queries as to the levels and their requirements to advance, and these queries have been addressed with moderations.
But I think what you're saying, WB, is that what happened at the very beginning of this site, before it was even officially opened, is that people were given free advancements and you don't like it because you feel that it is unfair and has given those people a free ride to the top without the work involved. Well, I have an inkling I might have been one of those people, yet I didn't even notice that advancement, nor care.
This thing happened months back and nothing's about to happen to rewinde it all. But instead of debating about what HAD happened, why don't you address some points of how to remedy things to make it all a little... easier, for lack of a better word... for folks to advance. That's my advice, if I have understood your posts correctly.
This thread needn't result into an argument over what happened and who's more popular and who shouldn't be where they are or who should be further, etc. But it all needs to settle a little and go back to simple suggestions on what should be considered, for the better of all site members. How's that, hm? :)

[WolfBrother]

As I've said before lexi. The point is NOT how many "little reppie dots" i have. Or how many points I have. The point is that it should NOT be linked to advancement.

The point also is. That as I said. You have no idea what advancing is like because you have never had to deal with it.

My suggestion is as it has always been. The rep system needs to be unlinked from the advancement system

[Alexia]

As I've said before lexi. The point is NOT how many "little reppie dots" i have. Or how many points I have. The point is that it should NOT be linked to advancement.
I know. I addressed that. :rolleyes:

But you ignored my last sort of message. You're getting all worked up about this, you just need to settle a minute - the world ain't ending because someone freely advanced and the reppie-dots are still linked with advancement.

EDIT: Reppie-dots are kind of like an incentive, right? Or somewhat like that. 'Stay around, make some posts, join (get hooked on) the community and advance. The more you do these things, the higher you advance with little gifts along the way which come with the advancement.' Isn't that a good thing?

[WolfBrother]

The only reason I'm so worked up over this. Is because I KNOW there are other people that hate the system as much as I do. I'm just the only one that will really say anything.

I've got to work twice as hard to prove that it's a bad system because of that.

Again that whole free ride thing was wrong. Everyone should have had to earn their way to the top

[QuirkyTemplate]

Well ... if the advancement system doesn't matter, which it so obviously doesn't because apparently I've been advanced and didn't even notice, then maybe it doesn't matter that rep points are linked to it.

Seems it's a big fuss over such a small thing.

[WolfBrother]

Well ... if the advancement system doesn't matter, which it so obviously doesn't because apparently I've been advanced and didn't even notice, then maybe it doesn't matter that rep points are linked to it.

Seems it's a big fuss over such a small thing.It matters that they're linked to it. Because it gives regular members the power to choose who does and does not advance. Members can choose to either give or take points. If a member chooses to not give points. Then you're not going to advance. If a member chooses to take points. Then you're not going to advance.

It's a find system if it's not linked to rank

[Buck]

Then how to do you recommend advancement?

[WolfBrother]

Well.

As it is. There are 3 requirements for advancment.

1. Reputation
2. Post Count
3. Length of Membership

I think that advancement would work just as well with only 2 and 3

[Alexia]

Ah, but three is such a good number... :D

[WolfBrother]

Ah, but three is such a good number... :DThey can replace it with something else then if you like it so much.

But rep shouldn't be a part of it

[Alexia]

They can replace it with something else then if you like it so much.
Woah. Step off, WB. I was only making a joke. :dozey:

[prophetic_joe]

First off, to address the point that has been made directly and indirectly, in both PMs and on here, that the reputation system as it stands discourages opinions. The nature of the reputation system actually has the opposite effect. When people make the point about discouragement of differing opinions, they often have their own in mind. A reputation comment is certainly ones opinion, being able to be expressed. The fact that anonymity is allowed simply gives the person the ability to express their opinion without have to justify, explain, or otherwise be confronted about it.

I seriously disagree with this. Ok so here's why, if you give rep be it positive or negative what is the point if not to tell the poster your opinion of why you liked or disliked thier post. The way rep works without reasons being given is this, if someone gives positive with no explanation it's like someone comes up and gives youa high five but you don't know who so can't say thanks, if they give negative it's like they punch you in the face and you can't defend yourself.

I have no problem with people disareeing with my posts and no problem with them saying so to me, what I have a problem with is working hard on posting quality posts and earning good rep from people,which may get me to advance,and then having someone come along and say well I disagree with you being an athiest, which I'm not, and then take away rep to make it harder for me to advance. Now if you tellme that I'll advance just as fast with the negative rep as with the positive then finerep is no big thing but if this is not the case then it really sucks. I work hard at my job so I can get a raise and more money so someone doesn't like what I say do they get to come and take some of that money from me so now I can't by that house I'm trying to? that type of thing wouldn't be fair and neither is rep being connected with advancement. Keep rep keep points but lose it being hooked to the level system and then it will be the coolest thing since sliced bread, keep it connected and it's just a way to keep someone you don't like from getting where they want to be.

and sure the third level can't do much more than the secondbut the fact is that they can do more at all.

[WolfBrother]

Woah. Step off, WB. I was only making a joke. :dozey:Well I was being sarcastic. So i guess we both read the posts wrong ;)

[Alexia]

just a way to keep someone you don't like from getting where they want to be.
Maybe it's just me being naive, but who would do this anyway? If you're going to be in a discussions forum, you've got to be able to accept and respect others' opinions. Malevolent abuse of this rep system, is just something I can't see happening.

Point taken and understood with complaints over having reppie-dots linked with advancement, but remember it's also a novel way to entice people to post quality material, instead of spamming their way to the top. :dozey:

[WolfBrother]

Maybe it's just me being naive, but who would do this anyway? If you're going to be in a discussions forum, you've got to be able to accept and respect others' opinions. Malevolent abuse of this rep system, is just something I can't see happening.

Point taken and understood with complaints over having reppie-dots linked with advancement, but remember it's also a novel way to entice people to post quality material, instead of spamming their way to the top. :dozey:That's true. But I feel that a lot of my posts are beneficial. But not everyone sees it that way. It's completely opinion based. If your opinion doesn't match someone elses. Then your post will likely not get rep for it

[Anita Blake]

ok, i'm sorry, but i just have to let you know that i've just read this thread and had a good chuckle. i mean.... COME ON!!! i'm hearing "advancement" like it's some highly prestigious event. Now, no offense to the fine folks that made and maintain this place, but "how far" you "advance" on the site is not like some big huge life-shaking deal. It's not like you gain super-powers. It's not like all of a sudden there's some butlers there to serve you wine and cheese and various little cucumber finger sandwiches and give you a towel when you step out of the pool. (though, note to admins: if you can arrange this i would be most pleased.... i've always wanted a butler with cucumber finger sandwiches)

anyway, it's like an awful lot of emotion for somethign really really stupid. For one thing, i don't even know what the difference is between different levels, and it's only this thread that's made me even notice what mike said a long time ago... that the different membership levels have different coloured text in their names.

if you want positive rep points, you should give more out, and try to write thoughtful and positive posts. Does that seem insane? Is it crazy that in order to basically become a "full priveliges member" you have to exhibit a certain je ne ce quois (or however you spell french for "i don't know what") that will force other people to give you that membership. i don't know. you're right. some people don't know what it's like to have to advance through all two levels of advancement. We can't know how awful it is. (though i can't really see it as being that awful). I don't mean to sound harsh here, but i probably do. That happens sometimes.

This isn't a big deal. I don't understand why it's been made into a big deal, let alone why it was ever even a little deal. And so i wander off chuckling lightly. I do that sometimes.

~waves and flees the wrath that is sure to ensue~

[Alexia]

That's true. But I feel that a lot of my posts are beneficial. But not everyone sees it that way. It's completely opinion based. If your opinion doesn't match someone elses. Then your post will likely not get rep for it
Well no rep's better than negative rep. In which case, you're situation is similar to many other's. It's hardly like people get rated on every post they make and given/taken rep to/from for those posts. Like you said, it's completely opinion-based, and I don't think I'm the only one who completely forgets about the system even when I feel that a post is out-of-line or inappropriate, you know?

Clearly, keeping or abolishing the function of reppie-dots and their link with advancement on the site, has two sides. It's just up to the Admins to determine whether reppie-dot removal from the process of advancement would be more beneficial or otherwise. *shrugs* They're still cute, but. :blush:

[prophetic_joe]

Maybe it's just me being naive, but who would do this anyway? If you're going to be in a discussions forum, you've got to be able to accept and respect others' opinions. Malevolent abuse of this rep system, is just something I can't see happening.

I do know that there has been a poster that had rep taken away for stating his religious beliefs I know this was not meant specifically to keep him from advancing but considering that rep and advancement are linked then it did hinder his advancement slightly. I just find it hard to understand why someone disagreeing with my opinion should keep me or anyone else from advancing. That makes me not want to post my opinion too much. I mean seriously why should someone lose points toward advancing because you disagree with a comment. points for kinda a running tally on how many rep responses is sorta cool but the being connected to the levels sucks.

[WolfBrother]

And because of the fact that you don't have to deal with it. You opinion of the system is going to be that you don't really care what we have to go through. I'm not saying that your opinion is bad. It's just a little one sided because you haven't had to experience the site like we do. You didn't have to earn your place. It was simply given to you.

And. I give out my maximum amout of rep everyday. I give out rep like it were water. Rarely do I get any in return. The system is flawed in that way. Because of that flaw the advance to the next rank is next to impossible.

I like the idea of rep points. I think it's cool and that it should stay. It just should not be linked to the rank system

[Alexia]

You didn't have to earn your place.
'Earn your place'? OMG - this is the internet! This is not happening! OMG! IT'S LIKE A POLITICAL SYTEM! :eek: :p But seriously, it's only a rep system. I understand your making your way to the top being hard and such. But on the issue of 'earning your place'... uhm... woah.

Meh. *stays naive and decides to leave* I got muffins to bake. :rolleyes:

[WolfBrother]

LOL

I didn't mean it quite like it sounded. I just mean that all you did was post. Just like we're all doing now. And you got the upgrade without reaching any of the requirements

[Buck]

Anita it really isnt that simple. The lowly apprentice only has 10 pm's aloud in his inbox and I have a huge handicap on rep I can give out. Also, I cant see my own fricken profile. lol. :thdown:

I dont even know what this ambiguous criteria is to get out of apprentice status aside from telling a admin to bump me up. This an obvious example of a flawed system. I may not be the most intelligent poster but I do contribute to the forums. and yet Im still only an apprentice. Now I dont want to bumped up, I havent request such a "help" b/c I want to see what it takes on my own.

And on top of this, another issue has been raised in my eye.
The reputation is supposed to remain anonymous unless the commenter wishes to leave a name. Surprise to me I get an email from an admin b/c I had the grace of dispproving of a post. The only dissaproval I gave out and I get a pm about it even though I didnt leave my name. Of course admin powers allows one to see who sent it. This is not honorable imo.

[~KA3AK~]

Anita it really isnt that simple. The lowly apprentice only has 10 pm's aloud in his inbox and I have a huge handicap on rep I can give out. Also, I cant see my own fricken profile. lol. :thdown:
I know what you mean dude. It is annoying to be an apprentice. When I was one, I had to clear out my PM box all the time. But once you get to Scribe you stop careing that much.

I understand the idea behind rep - to allow members another way of communicating their opinion and reward quality posts. As good as the idea seemed, it did not turn out that well for various reasons.

The first big problem is that there is no universal criteria for rep points. Everyone kinda makes up their own guidelines for how to use it. It was never clearly explained. I'm not saying that the criteria should be really strict, but people have to at least understand the original interpretation of the system (I didn't before this thread).

Second - rep was linked to the advancement system. True, rep is probably more objective then simple post count, however it creates a lot of frustration. Everyone wants to be at the top and get stressed out when he has no control over his advancement or an idea when it might happen (WB for example). This actually generates most of the arguments over rep.

Third (and most frustrating for me) - rep is being used as a discussion tool. In discussion some people just give negative rep points to posts they don't agree with, instead of arguing them.

Forth - negative rep increases tentions, instead of resolving conflicts.

Fifth - rep discourages tolerance of other members. (this can be partially tied to my first point). People should not be offened easely, and be more understanding.


Problems aside, I think that we should stop being such formalists. Yes, some people got a "free ride". But be reasonable about it. The admins and the alpha testers worked hard on this board and they deserve some credit. The whole "rep being an advancement category" is a pretty stupid thing to argue about. Its funny how such a small differece creates such frustration. Some people just need to be less zealous about it.

Aside from that, I don't think rep should be abolished, because so many people like it. I do have some propositions for impoving it:

1. Clear explanation of the whole system (especially everything that has to do with negative rep)
2. Rep should not be a criteria for advancement from apprentice to scribe (it should be post count or time period), only from scribe to enchanter. I do think that you should earn your way into highest category by posting some quality stuff.
3. Forced fcommentaries
4. For negative rep - no anymosity. I believe that this will increase tolerance, plus you should have a right to face you "accusor".
5. Everyone gives the same amount of rep points. This way everyone's opinion is wieghted equally. This just makes it more democratic. Admins can always find other ways to modify rep when it's really needed, so they are not really loosing any priviledges.

These changes should cool some people down.

[prophetic_joe]

p)2. Rep should not be a criteria for advancement from apprentice to scribe (it should be post count or time period), only from scribe to enchanter. I do think that you should earn your way into highest category by posting some quality stuff.

This is the only statement i disagree with in your entire post symply because peoples views on quality stuff is different. I personally try to post quality everytime, but i am sure some people might think I don't. A persons advancement shouldn't ever be basedon how well liked he is. Think about high schooldidn't it suck when all the popular kids got all the good stuff. I know it's meanial but I don't see why it is a big deal to keep the system either I think both arguments have stupid reasons for existing,you say c'mon it's just the net it's not that important,I say c'mon it's just the net why can't you let me be happy. I don't think taking away the rep connected to advancement hurts anyone,where as keeping it does aggravate some users, so why not just change that part so everyone is happy and can get along. like everyone keeps saying what is the big deal.

[WolfBrother]

Problems aside, I think that we should stop being such formalists. Yes, some people got a "free ride". But be reasonable about it. The admins and the alpha testers worked hard on this board and they deserve some credit. The whole "rep being an advancement category" is a pretty stupid thing to argue about. Its funny how such a small differece creates such frustration. Some people just need to be less zealous about it. Dude. All the alpha testers did is post like we're posting right now. They were just given the opportunity to do it a few months in advance.

That being said. The free ride was and is unfair to the rest of us who were not considered for the initial testing.

[Amos]

The free ride was and is unfair to the rest of us who were not considered for the initial testing.
are you bitter about the free ride or not being considered? either way it doesn't matter, not to me or anyone else, so get over it. the administrators chose people who they wanted to be a part of their community. these are people who would have been enchanter lever eventually anyway (and you will be too if you stop acting like such a drama queen :p ). the admins were completely justified for raising them to the level, because like I said it's their community, they made it, they can do what they want and if they like people they can give benefits to them. if it wasn't for them this place wouldn't even exist. stop acting like you're so hard done by. i wasn't chosen for testing, i haven't been given benefits and i am still not yet an "enchanter" am i any less a part of the community? am i bitter because of it? has this affected my life in any way whatsoever? the short and only answer is a resounding No. it simply doesn't matter.

random: just because people respect your right to express your opinion doesn't mean they have to agree with/like/respect your opinion.

[prophetic_joe]

random: just because people respect your right to express your opinion doesn't mean they have to agree with/like/respect your opinion.

The point is by allowing the rep system to take points away and therefore make it harder to advance you are allowing people who disagree with others opinions punish them for having those opinions and that is just not cool and shows no respect for others at all. disagree with me all you want but don't punish me for thinking the way I do because I won't punish anyone else for thinking the way they do.

Furthermore I don't care about reaching the next level I just think that rank based on what people think of you is plain dumb. Base it on time #of posts whatever, just not on others opinions of the person. I mean seriously if rank were achieved by time and the time limit to become third level was 4 years I would not care but when someone can control in even the slightest way anything in my life because they disagree with my thoughts it really ticks me off. Taking a point away fromsomeone because they think differently is like saying you can think differently but I'm goingto do something to hurt you because of it. this is especially bad and rude if they don't leave a reason or a signature, not to mention cowardly IMHO.

[Amos]

this is a community. correct me if i'm wrong, but i think that means your place/status/popularity here is determined by what the rest of the community thinks of you. therefore points given through the rep system, when it is embraced by the community, reflect the general views of the community. the community also know the benefits of approving and repercussions of disapproving for the approvee/disapprovee and will, for the most part, use them as they feel is appropriately. have a little faith in your peers.

[prophetic_joe]

this is a community. correct me if i'm wrong, but i think that means your place/status/popularity here is determined by what the rest of the community thinks of you. therefore points given through the rep system, when it is embraced by the community, reflect the general views of the community. the community also know the benefits of approving and repercussions of disapproving for the approvee/disapprovee and will, for the most part, use them as they feel is appropriately. have a little faith in your peers.

like i have stated if I do something really offensive then i expect tobe punished this seems to be what mods are for. But I have seen people on this board recieve negative rep for things such as stating different religious beliefs and that is the type of thing that makes me lose faith in the system and my peers. whether you choose to or want to believe it or not there are people in real communities and people in online communities that will abuse a system like this, I'm not saying that this is happening here but it is a possibilty why take the chance of that happening and some nice person that is good for the boards getting thier feelings hurt and leaving. it's just not worth it to me to take that risk when other ways to do things are possible. if we take the systemand change it a little it hurts no one whatsoever so what is the big deal that we can't change it?

[Amos]

you cannot change the system so that noone gets hurt. there will always be a way unless you stifle peoples ability to express themselves. it is a fact of life that some peple will abuse the system and if you can't deal with one person giving you an unjustified disapproval then you have an issue emotionally (immaturity).

also, i'm all for diversity but you can only have so much before you get conflict, so not everyone is going to be accepted here anyway

[prophetic_joe]

wehave already discussed how it can be changed. if you disconnect the rep system from advancement then no one get's hurt.youcan have a rep systemthat is not attached to rankand that willstill give people a way to express themselves.it's pretty simple actually. mind youi don't mean simple to change i just mean simpleto seethat this is a good solution. and i personally think with rep being tied to rank it limits ability to express oneself more because now you are constantly thinking what opinions you have that will cause people to get mad at you.

[Amos]

why do you feel advancement is so important though? you can also express yourself without advancement. again, if you're hurt by that and/or are constantly obsessing about what people are going to think of what you say then you need to deal. why should we shelter people so much?

[prophetic_joe]

it's a matter of people being able to take something from me based on thier opinion of what i think, that to me is something low and wrong and very disrespectful. if you disagree with something someone says tell themtry to convince them they are wrong or whatever but if you took a dollar out of thier pocket for the disagreement that just isn't cool. It's a matter of people earn points toward advancement and someone can come along and say oh the sky is clear today i'm going to take a point from that guy. I just think a sytem that enables that is a bad one.

as far as rank is concerned i stated before that i don't care about it the thing that bothers meis that it is tied to rep. i could be a scribe foreverand that doesn't matter but not because someone gives me neg rep.

[Amos]

so you don't care about rep unless someone takes it away from you for no good reason? hehe. seperately those are good points but they don't work together. if you're willing to accept positive rep points then you should accept the fact that sometimes you might get negative ones.

[prophetic_joe]

i don't quite think you're taking the whole journey with me here James read all of my previous posts. the rep system is a good system i'm getting a little tired of saying it. what is bad is it being tied to advancement. if it was not tied to rank i wouldn't give a hoot why someone gave me negative rep but since it is I think that negative rep should only come with a really good reason. Keep the rep system the way it is with both positive and negative options just make it seperate from the rank system. I just think this will cut down abuse ofthe system and if it doesn't at least make people not care as much when it is abused.

btw I've never recieved negative rep so i'm being objective here.

[Amos]

you are right, i have been a little.. ignorant.. of what you're trying to say. ah, okay. i think you are right, it would cut down abuse to seperate it from advancement. if we were to do that though i think it would be necessary to make comments and signatures compulsory to avoid trivialising the whole system. it would also undoubtedly trivialise the process of advancement. not a big loss i think, but the main reason advancement is here is to keep trollage and spammage to a minimum. maybe advancement should be based purely on how long you've been here? (post count is a bad idea) (and yes, i'm obviously having serious reconsiderations on how i view the whole system)

[prophetic_joe]

i agree completely i personally think it should be based on time. that way it is a nonbiased system. i also agree that they should make comments and signatures required to give rep. This is what i have been saying all along. lol I love going in and seeing what people think of my posts so i thinkthe rep is a good thing but make rank based on how long you've been an active user this will cut down on spam and also hard feelings about being given bad rep.

[Malcor Sylverwood]

Actually, I'd think that removing the rep system from the advancement would make it more likely to be abused (in giving negative rep) because it wouldn't have any consequences.

Anyway, I think most of the admins agree that having rep tied to advancement is sloppy at best. But, its also the only automated way we have that keeps a member coming in, spamming a hundred messages, leaving for 2 years, and coming back to being an enchanter. So, in the end, its quick and dirty solution, and FAR from perfect, but IMO its still workable.

And, I appreciate all the comments from everyone. Its given us a lot to sit down and think about, which we will continue to do.

Without all of you guys, this site doesn't exist. And that means a lot to me personally.

Thanks. :)

-Malcor "Admin" Sylverwood

[WolfBrother]

are you bitter about the free ride or not being considered? either way it doesn't matter, not to me or anyone else, so get over it. the administrators chose people who they wanted to be a part of their community. these are people who would have been enchanter lever eventually anyway (and you will be too if you stop acting like such a drama queen :p ). the admins were completely justified for raising them to the level, because like I said it's their community, they made it, they can do what they want and if they like people they can give benefits to them. if it wasn't for them this place wouldn't even exist. stop acting like you're so hard done by. i wasn't chosen for testing, i haven't been given benefits and i am still not yet an "enchanter" am i any less a part of the community? am i bitter because of it? has this affected my life in any way whatsoever? the short and only answer is a resounding No. it simply doesn't matter.

random: just because people respect your right to express your opinion doesn't mean they have to agree with/like/respect your opinion.No. My point still stands. The alpha testers didn't do anything differently than I am now. If they deserved a boost so do the rest of us. Since the admins see it as WE are helping to test the site as well

[Mike]

One of the things we're testing is how people react on this system, and so far we've been getting lots of information. Keep it coming please

:D

[Buck]

wb I disagree with you on this.

Just let it be man.

[WolfBrother]

That's fine. You can disagree with me if you wish.

But I am right

[Buck]

Nope, Gaining "seniority" based only on when joined and how many posts is dumb. We would have rabid post wars again. And we dont speak of those anymore.

I agree with you that the rep points are still not gold, but it is still better than not having it as part of it. Ive had time to think on it and Im starting to see that is is just the lesser evil.

[night faerie]

oy. A lot to catch up on.

ok for one thing, wb, the site is no longer being tested, so everyone who's here now is NOT currently testing the site.

secondly, there was never a deal where the testers were advanced. Ever. Noone was approached and asked to test the site in return for anything, other than our appreciation. To my knowledge, most of the testers were not advanced at all. Those who were advanced, were done on an individual basis, at the discretion of an admin, per the request of he/she who was pushed ahead.

As for myself, the only time I advanced anyone was when I was trying to figure out how things worked around here. And that was after the site was officially opened, no longer being tested.
>edit< ok I just remembered, I did advance two other people outside of this reason. My best friend, who still hasnt posted here :rolleyes: because I dont think she knows how the forums work and I didnt want anything that would confuse her. also, I advanced another member of our community who was away at the military & unable to post for a while. These things were done at my discretion.

And again, if theres anything anyone wants to be able to do, that they cant do because of their rank, all they have to do is ask.

Now I do have to address one thing that seriously disturbs me. If anyone has points taken away from them for a reason they feel is inappropriate, please bring it to the attention of an admin. The fact that someone gave negative rep for someone's religious beliefs is something I, and probably all the admins, do not take lightly, and would like to address. So whoever this happened to, please pm one of us, or all of us, or catch us in IM or whatever and tell us privately, not on the forums. If the matter is brought to an admin, it will be righted one way or another.

Thx again for all the comments.

[WolfBrother]

Nope, Gaining "seniority" based only on when joined and how many posts is dumb. We would have rabid post wars again. And we dont speak of those anymore.

I agree with you that the rep points are still not gold, but it is still better than not having it as part of it. Ive had time to think on it and Im starting to see that is is just the lesser evil.The point of the rank system is to protect us. That is what the admins have said. It is made so random people do not have the option to look at our profiles and do anything to us unless they earn the right

The admins know me. They know you buck. Just like they knew all the alpha testers. Only difference is. They think that the alpha testers are more trustworthy than us and decided to give them the added rank.

I know you all probably think i'm full of crap for that trustworthy comment. But how else can I see it. You know I'm a good person and do not harm anyone. Yet you make me work for my rank and give it away to the alpha testers. That is not right

[night faerie]

The admins know me. They know you buck. Just like they knew all the alpha testers. Only difference is. They think that the alpha testers are more trustworthy than us and decided to give them the added rank....Yet you make me work for my rank and give it away to the alpha testers. That is not right

OMG I hate repeating myself :-p
RANK WAS NOT GIVEN AWAY TO THE TESTERS!!!

also, wb, if theres something you want to be able to do that you cannot now, please just ask. Cause if your continued arguing is for nothing more than the title, then your entire argument is crap.
I do agree you have made some very good points in this thread, but they're made already, so unless you have something new to bring, please just refrain from repeating yourself so maybe some other people will post as well. I have the feeling some people have hesitated to post their opinions cause maybe they dont want to jump into the current discussion/debate.

And again, if theres something you want to be able to do that you cannot now, please just ask.

[~KA3AK~]

the admins were completely justified for raising them to the level, because like I said it's their community, they made it, they can do what they want and if they like people they can give benefits to them. if it wasn't for them this place wouldn't even exist.
A very good point. I was thinking about it myself, but I didn't want to got there. Anyway, sicnce this is already I have some comments. This is a private board and nobody is really entitled to anything. The admins are the supreme law of the board. They try to be democratic and fair, but there is nothing that says that they can't advance their friends.

I agree with you that the rep points are still not gold, but it is still better than not having it as part of it. Ive had time to think on it and Im starting to see that is is just the lesser evil.
That's pretty much what happened to me. I think that in order for people to advance to enchanter, they have to post quality stuff, not post a lot or be a member for a long time. The only way for others to recogize your quality posts is through rep. Yes, the system is sometimes abused, but I have faith that most quillers are fair judges. I hope for most members approte/disappove does not mean the same thing as agree/disagree.

[night faerie]

ok for the record, I have just given rep points to everyone who helped us out by posting on this thread. :D Because it really does help us to see what you all think & feel about the site & how it works. So if you havent posted here yet, please do. I promise I'll give ya points if ya do. ;) Oh, and arch will give you each a popsicle. Or if not, I'll steal a popsicle from his stash & slip it to ya under the table. ;) :D :p

[wiggin]

Um.... this is scary. I'm getting more rep points for saying I dislike the system? A certain irony in that.... ;)

Perhaps it was all a Machiavellian ploy on my part to get more points. MUAHAHAHA. Or not. ;)

But thanks, I suppose.

Ender

[WolfBrother]

OMG I hate repeating myself :-p
RANK WAS NOT GIVEN AWAY TO THE TESTERS!!! I'm not quite sure what exactly you have repeated.

But I was told. By admins. That the reason that EVERY alpha tester is at the 3rd rank is because it was GIVEN to them. ~nods~



Cause if your continued arguing is for nothing more than the title, then your entire argument is crap.

As for my arguement. I'm not arguing for a title. I'm arguing because I feel that every member should be able to have a signature and be able to view the who's online page. Both very important to the board experience

[night faerie]

silly chicken, wiggin. you're not getting points for your opinion, you're getting points for sharing your opinion.

I really think everyone who has posted on this thread so far has made at least one or two good points and deserves to be credited for that, as well as just for contributing.

All this stuff helps us to understand what is and isnt working for the community at large. Even if this system remains intact, knowing your views may help us admins to adapt other aspects of the site, to be most beneficial to the community.

In other words, everybody plays, everybody wins. :)

<edit> well, wb, I do agree with you on the signature thing. The who's online thing I can sort of understand, its got to do with privacy and I know that I have been online-stalked via the whose online thing before, so I can sort of see the objection to that part. But this is what we want to know.
How many of the rest of you think its important to have sigs & see whos online?

[Jennifer]

How many of the rest of you think its important to have sigs & see whos online?

The who's online thing isn't that much to me, really. Just kind of something to look at when there's nothing else to look at. But signatures are an important part of your "board persona," I guess. More so to some than others. Some signatures can be obnoxious, but you guys have taken care of most of that problem with the no images thing.
But yeah, scribes should be able to have signatures, I don't see why not.

BTW, I don't really care about getting rep, but I would like a popsicle. :D

[Dregs]

The who's online thing isn't that much to me, really. Just kind of something to look at when there's nothing else to look at. But signatures are an important part of your "board persona," I guess. More so to some than others. Some signatures can be obnoxious, but you guys have taken care of most of that problem with the no images thing.
But yeah, scribes should be able to have signatures, I don't see why not.

BTW, I don't really care about getting rep, but I would like a popsicle. :D


I'm better off without a signature. I'd just try and be witty and end up looking like a tool instead. I would like a popsicle though...

[Buck]

popsicle? where? :D

[Amos]

How many of the rest of you think its important to have sigs & see whos online?
i don't really miss having a sig that much to be honest. when i do get one though i intend on using someting i've written myself. all the better to express me with, you know? it's meant to be my signature after all, not maynard's or poe's :) and who's online is useful if you're having an ongoing conversation/discussion/debate and needing to reply quite often, in that you can see when other people are replying, but i rarely do that so oh well..

[Christy Sedai]

Well I didnt know about the rep system for awhile and was suprised to see I had points for a month or so before I noticed it. Didnt really pay attention to the reply you can give the person you give the rep to, hehe, shows how good my attention span is. I do think its cool when someone gives you a nice comment on one of your posts, I do feel the deducting should be left to the admins. Like say someone posted this really cool poem or something and I gave them a point for it, it would kinda suck for someone to take away that point because they didnt like it. This may have been addressed already I'm not sure cause there have been way too many posts in this thread recently for me to read all of them, mostly cause it is now 4am. And while I think it is cool to give points to people I dont really like the idea of taking them away, I think that should be more admin decision so noone gets their feelings hurt or whatever. I certainly dont take away and dont intend on deducting any points away from anyone anyways. :rolleyes: I dont know if I joined in time to get "an upgrade" or not ~ just happy to be able to have an avatar and rewrite some of the goofy things my husband put in my profile~ :p I think it was good that alot of people expressed their opinions about this rep system, although at some points I felt abit annoyed by some comments, but oh well. ~shrugs~

~ gives Anita a platter of cucumber sandwiches~
That was hilarious, lol

[QuirkyTemplate]

I don't use the 'who's online' thing much at all. the sig would be nice, but I'm content to wait. 'tis all gravy :)

[Anita Blake]

OOC, why is there a limit set on how much rep you can give in 24 hours? What is the limit? Is this somewhere in the FAQ? If i were to read the faq would i find all of the rules governing the giving of rep, it's limits, the reasons for such, and all that kind of technical nonsense? I'm mostly just curious, but also partly lazy, and thusly i ask here. :D

[Buck]

As far as the Who's Online.

Even as a apprentice I could tell who was online. Each post has the little "v" icon that is blue if your off and yellow if your on.

Am I the only one?

And I could always see who is in chat too...

[WolfBrother]

As far as the Who's Online.

Even as a apprentice I could tell who was online. Each post has the little "v" icon that is blue if your off and yellow if your on.

Am I the only one?

And I could always see who is in chat too...
That's true. But the who's online page shows where the people are online.

If you've got nothing to do but wait for someone to reply to your posts then the who's online page is handy because it tells you when people are replying. ;)

[Buck]

Woah... isn't that too much information?

[WolfBrother]

huh? why is that too much information?

there are lots of people who use the who's online page for that. People also just set it to that page when they've got nothing else to say at the moment

[Buck]

Well, then is there a way that we can set who can see us?
I think it is called invisiblity mode?

Even cooler give us the option of what level can see us.
That way I can hide from the pesky admins..errr..I mean the enchanters.(joking)

[Malcor Sylverwood]

heh, yeah...invisible sets it so nobody can see you...except mods and admins. Just FYI

-Malcor "Admin" Sylverwood

[Buck]

FAH!

*chisels an admin invisiblity mode onto the list on his monitor*

[night faerie]

LOL! You guys are good and fun. :)
~looks around furtively~
~sees arch is looking the other way~
~passes out pilfered popsicles~
[whisper] ok, now eat them fast before he sees.... er, I mean, before they melt. [\whisper]
~flees~

[~KA3AK~]

I don't mind having no signature. At least you're not expected to be witty. :dozey:

[Curtis]

I don't mind having no signature. At least you're not expected to be witty. :dozey:

I think having a sig is the only thing I miss with the rank system. And I mostly just put up refrains from Linkin Park songs and snippets of poetry, so I suppose I can live without it until the fated day arrives that I'm allowed to have one.

I haven't really thought about the rep system, I didn't realize how it worked for a while before I noticed things popping up on the control panel page. I think I've only given rep once or twice. Bad me. Is there any way to check rep you've given?

[sir archely]

Is there any way to check rep you've given?

Nope, but you can't give rep on any given post more than once, so you don't have to worry about giving to anything twice. It'll let you know if you try. ;)

[prophetic_joe]

I personally like the who's online thing and miss that I work overnights and have nothing to do so knowing wher a new post is going to be helps keep me entertained. lol yes i know it is sad.

[Anita Blake]

OOC, why is there a limit set on how much rep you can give in 24 hours? What is the limit? Is this somewhere in the FAQ? If i were to read the faq would i find all of the rules governing the giving of rep, it's limits, the reasons for such, and all that kind of technical nonsense? I'm mostly just curious, but also partly lazy, and thusly i ask here. :D



~points out that an actual question got missed in all the drama~

~taps foot~

hmmm... wonder if there's somethign wrong with my foot... it's doesn't usually tap that loudly..... :umm:

~foot tapping become foot stomp~

~runs away before this gets out of hand, er, foot~

~points at question again while fleeing~

[sir archely]

~points out that this has already been answered on the boards~ ;) :p

In any case, the limits are there to prevent flooding and boosting and...er...whatever the opposite of boosting is. You're also missing that there is a cycle requirement. ie- you can't go back to giving rep to a certain member until you've hit a minimum number of other members.

To my knowledge, this isn't in the faq...but it is contained within the more detailed "Reputation" thread.

[Anita Blake]

hehe, thanks arch. ~points out mention of laziness~

~goes to look in this 'detailed Reputation thread' to see if there's any mention of what the limit is, and how many you have to give out before you can give another to a person~

[WolfBrother]

It's been awhile since we've heard anything on this. So BUMP!

Now that it's moved back up. I still really don't know what to add. I've said my peace.

What do we all think?

[Jennifer]

I think it's been a while cos most people HAVE said their piece...

[WolfBrother]

:) Yes I kind of assumed that. That's why I'm asking where we stand ;)

[Jennifer]

~looks around~

Doesn't seem like much has changed. I figure that's about where we stand. :p

[Apoc]

I think its all good I guess. Although I think everyone should have the right to a signature. It adds to that persons character I reckon.

For rep points however I was slightly annoyed I couldn't give one to someone as I had already given them one for another post, they deserved in my view to get another one for another post I thought, I found out the same happened to me, someone had given me rep for one post but was unable too for another that they thought I deserved it for aswell. Annoying, but oh well I guess thats how Satans' cookie crumble.

[Jennifer]

That's just to make sure that no one would try to boost a person's reputation in a "cheating" way, I suppose.

I suppose the main prizes of Enchanter-dom should be Who's Online, custom titles, and, umm...I guess that's it.

It's all a work-of-art-in-progress anyhow. Things'll work out. ;)

[WolfBrother]

Yes. But there are glitches here and there that are not being fixed even though they should've been. I know it's a glitch. I've been told it's a glitch. And should be an easy fix. It's just not

I really don't want to start ANOTHER fight though so I won't say what they are in public

[sir archely]

The consensus is that while the system we have now isn't exactly perfect, no system is really going to be. What we've got is what we think is the best with what we have to work with. If things are updated, or serious problems arise, then maybe we'll look at changing it again.

The 'glitch' that WB is talking about is about as far from a serious problem as you can get.

[sir archely]

For rep points however I was slightly annoyed I couldn't give one to someone as I had already given them one for another post, they deserved in my view to get another one for another post I thought, I found out the same happened to me, someone had given me rep for one post but was unable too for another that they thought I deserved it for aswell. Annoying, but oh well I guess thats how Satans' cookie crumble.

You can give as much reputation to a single person as you'd like, it just involves you being patient and givine rep to other people as well. As long as the post doesn't go anywhere, you can always go back. ;)

[Waffles]

Ok, I've read all this and seriously.... relax ppl!

Anyway, there IS something I want.... a sig! So um, yeah :D

Or tell me how long I have to wait for one....

[Waffles]

Ok.... I just previewed my post, and it showed a sig, but when I posted, the sig wasn't there :(

[WolfBrother]

Don't think we're allowed to have a sig yet WFFS

[Amos]

haha. i think you/we have maybe a month, month and a half left yet ;)

[Corvus Corax]

Ok, just checking:

the people who posted in this thread, mentioning they'd like to have a sig all have been "upgraded" :rolleyes: to enchanter, as far as I can work out.

It may be a notification or just a question: are you guys able to have a sig now?

[Amos]

indeed we are, but the posts in this threads would not have had the option "show signature" ticked when we posted, due to our lack of ability in that area, and they stay that way unless we edit them, if that's what you're asking :)

[Corvus Corax]

mmmhhh, interesting

*takes notes*

*is preparing a book with the title: Quilling for dummies*

*has yet to decide wether to interview some grandmothers or doing further research on this site*

[Dregs]

This was one weird thread. <sigh>

[Apoc]

I think it would be cool that instead of little green dots, we got like ummmm military stripes or something, wings perhaps?????

Ummm just another stupid idea from moi :confused: ahhh I'm lost

~walks into a wall~

[Apoc]

I wonder how the rep situation will be EXACTLY a year from now. :D

~giggles~

The mighty green dots of reputation....

I think they're cool...and liked building them up...but once the limit was hit, fun game go bye bye....~thinks they should go on and on~...so that in fifty years hehehhehehhehehe, the side bar of us who where here in the beggining years of the world wide phenomenon of the quill, will be filled with green and those that inherit our space when we have passed from this most excellent place, shall know our glory ~giggles maniacally~ and we'll be legends :D

check the date and time...spooky and kinda freaky sad also ~giggles~

[Jennifer]

Funny how things work out though. Nobody bitches about the system anymore. And so far I don't think anyone has become a rep whore. Yeah. Funny how things work out.

[Vivacia]

Rank? There's rank? Enchanter? What others are there?

~sighs~ I really should read the FAQ, I guess. I didn't even know what the little boxes were at first. I like my five little boxes :) I like the nice things ppl sometimes say too. I do know someone who got neg rep recently because of a comment made to me on a thread. ~shakes head~ I for one have never given neg rep and probably never would unless it was a seriously offensive post.

Anyway. Enough rambling. I think the system works fine now. I have no problem with it. Just my 2 1/2 cents worth :)

[wiggin]

*still doesn't like the rep points system* I personally would still favor a straight out private "comment" system for posts, but nothing more. *shrugs* But who gives? I just hide my rep, and don't complain. ;)

Ender

[sir archely]

I think they're cool...and liked building them up...but once the limit was hit, fun game go bye bye....~thinks they should go on and on~...so that in fifty years hehehhehehhehehe, the side bar of us who where here in the beggining years of the world wide phenomenon of the quill, will be filled with green and those that inherit our space when we have passed from this most excellent place, shall know our glory ~giggles maniacally~ and we'll be legends

Bad idea. Encouraging a schism between the old users and the new users it not something we'd like to do. Keeping a limit keeps it fun for everyone, i'd think.


don't complain.

:umm: right... :p

really, the rep system is little more than a glorified comment system anyway. the number rankings as they stand are hardly indicative of some sort of prestige level. i think the big message of this thread was that taking the system too seriously is a mistake.

[AquaFizz]

~chimes in~

I like the green dots.

Green is my favorite color.

Anyone who says green is icky..is evil.

Thus, anyone who says green dots are icky...is also evil.

~Likes making a pyramid with her words, so keeps going some more~

[Apoc]

I wasn't trying to start up anything you psilly peeps....I noticed upon browsing through this thread that my last post was made EXACTLY a year ago...so I waited a couple of minutes to get it JUST right...to the minute...and then just rambled some nonsense to keep on subject :D

~flees whilst giggling maniacally~

[Buck]

Anyone who says green is icky..is evil.

Thus, anyone who says green dots are icky...is also evil.


A pyramid you say? :eyebrow:

[sir archely]

I wasn't trying to start up anything you psilly peeps....I noticed upon browsing through this thread that my last post was made EXACTLY a year ago...so I waited a couple of minutes to get it JUST right...to the minute...and then just rambled some nonsense to keep on subject :D

~flees whilst giggling maniacally~
When i posted, i was fairly certain you didn't really mean much by your comment, but i answered it seriously just to give an answer to the question that may be asked seriously in the future.

[QuirkyTemplate]

glory-mongers!

[Amelia]

green is icky

[Jennifer]

Funny coming from someone with so many warders... :p

[Amelia]

:blush: heehee ummm yeah.

[Buck]

Me thinks now it is my turn to perform the foot tapping. :p

[Amelia]

you think you foot tapping has any affect on me?

**gives bucky the look**

[dark fuschia]

I hated the rep system at first. It still creeps me out a bit, but I like the comments so muchly (which everyone can relate to), and confess a little thrill every time I recieve one. I thought it would cause trouble. I am so happy that the quillers are of such a high standard of person that it didn't cause (much) trouble. :love:

[Buck]

Yea I dont pay attention to how many dots anyone has, nor do I really care how many dots I have at all.

I love the comments too wendy. Some of them make me all warm and squishy inside. :blush: But while we are on topic, is there any way to see older rep comments or are those lost?

*take the look and puts a bow on it*

:p

[epiph]

you know that email and pm's and text messages (and i assume rep comments) actually produce a seratonin response. so its no wonder people get addicted to text messaging and stuff.

[Amelia]

**knows Bucky is afraid of getting the look**

I also agree with Wendy, I love the comments I get! They can be really funny or creepy and sometimes I do care that I got one more green dot! I admit it!

[Waffles]

Ever notice that noone has 8 dots? I think its a conspiracy against the number 8 :ninja:

[Apoc]

umm tatum has 8 dots.

~nods~

[LaughingTurtle]

ooooo burned :D Mel Gibson you're not Waf heh ;)

[Waffles]

Well, she didn't yesterday! I'm glad the situation has been resolved though... I was getting worried with the unfair treatment that the number 8 was receiving. Then again... this could be a cover-up... :ninja:

[sir archely]

you know, we could just fix it so you have 8 dots all the time. doesn't everyone think this is a fair solution?

[AquaFizz]

No.

I like earning my dots.

Ofcourse, I'd probably have 7 right now if it weren't for you...

*Squints to arch...throws ice cream and runs*

[sir archely]

moi? i didn't give you any negative... :confused:

also, i was saying we'd just give waffles 8 dots all the time... everyone else will be unaffected. ;)

[AquaFizz]

I really think you did. Maybe not..but I think you did.

What?!

What makes Waff more special than me?!

It's his accent isnt it?!

I have an American Accent!!

[Waffles]

I really think you did. Maybe not..but I think you did.

What?!

What makes Waff more special than me?!

It's his accent isnt it?!

I have an American Accent!!
Darling, I have 10 dots... 8 would be a step DOWN...

[AquaFizz]

Psh. I'm not petty enough to go around counting dots...I wouldnt know.

:p

~proud of her ubercool coverup~

[Arianna]

ditto wendy. people's little comments can just make your day sometimes :)