[DnD3e] 3.5 revision

[Malcor Sylverwood]

Well, with Wizard's planning on having a revised ruleset out this July, I thought it might be good to talk a little about it. The 3 core books will all be rereased in the new version (Player's Handbook, Dungeon Master's Guide, and Monster Manual) plus a new system reference document (SRD) will be created. On the plus side, that means you won't HAVE to burn $90 to get the new rules and such. There is also a free conversion guide that will talk about what changes need to be made to move other 3.0 material to the new 3.5 rules, with topics such as Monster Manual II and Epic level handbook.

So far, I've gleaned that the core classes will recieve some changes, with the most changes going to the bard and ranger. Some of the feats and classes from the classbooks (like Sword and Fist) will be added to the core book. Alchemy becomes Craft (Alchemy), Intuit direction and Wilderness Lore roll into one skilled called Survival, and Animal Empathy and Scry become class abilities. Some spells will be changed, mostly from what I've seen they will be less powerful...Haste no longer allows an extra spell to be cast in a round, Harm gets a saving throw, and the buff spells (Bull's Strength) have there durations shortened to one round per level.

Anyway, it should be interesting...as a DM I'm planning to adopt most of the changes, although I will likely houserule a few things (Haste for example).

-Malcor "Flash" Sylverwood

[sir archely]

I can't decide about what i think about this whole .5 crap. Well, i guess i can. I think it's crap. It certainly shouldn't be put in the format they are putting it in, reprinting all of the books and at 30 bucks a pop.

Question: Is there really that much of a difference between 3e and 3.5 that it requires this?

I don't know the changes, and all i've heard is from malcor, so...i don't know. It just seems like another WotC gimmick to get cash flowing. Of course, i'm biased against WotC off the bat anyhow, but whatever.

Duration shortened on the 'buff spells' is sad for the power gamer in me...but i get it. heh.

I guess it's true some of the stuff needs to be changed (maybe people will actually play as single class rangers or even play as a bard at all now) but it still seems like a hefty errata-type book could have handled it, maybe a single $30 book instead of all three.

Question: Are there plans for releasing MM, MM2, epic, etc. in 3.5 eventually?

That also seems pretty crappy. If they're going to do it, do it the whole way, not just half.

Personally, here's my issue. I was planning on purchasing the books...then i heard about the 3.5 update thing and decided i'd hold off. Now...I'm not so sure. Is 3.5 going to come out only to be replaced in not so very long by something else? And also, i've been playing in 3e...should i just say screw it and wait for 3.5 and purchase the old books? Do you think that 3 will drop in price with the release of the new version?

[Malcor Sylverwood]

There are quote a few changes, I think they could handle it as like a single 'upgrade manual' or something. But, at least everything will go into the SRD so you don't have to buy it, even if you want to go to the new rules. AFAIK, only the three core books are being rereleased, with a free conversion thing for the others. As far as prices? No clue...

-Malcor "v1.0.0.1" Sylverwood

[sir archely]

yeah, but books are so much nicer than the SRD and computer based stuff. just nice to have a copy in your hands, rather than comp. for me, it's also infinitely more portable.

[night faerie]

~wanders in~


~wishes she had any idea what you all are talking about~


~wanders out~

[Cloric the Cleric]

Well, when someone gets the new books and compares them, they can let me know how substantial the changes are and I'll decide at that point if I want to start saving the money to buy them.


stupid publishing companies.

[sir archely]

Originally posted by Cloric the Cleric
stupid publishing companies.

~nods~

[sir archely]

well, they're out....

at least on amazon the prices are about 20 bucks a book. Much like the prices of the original 3e books when they first came out, they are probably trying to boost sales of these. i'm sure it'll go up at some point. my guess would be january, cause iirc that's when the old ones increased.

[sir archely]

well, i guess that 20 dollar price is limited to amazon. I failed to notice the little thing that says it was marked down from the list price of $29.95. Well then. Apparently wotc's greed knows no bounds. I would have thought they would price this one lower, like they did when 3e first came out, to inspire buyers. I mean, let's face it, this is really nothing more than a booster for wotc's sales of DnD stuff, i mean, there's only so many people you can sell the books to. For people who are sitting on the fence about whether or not to buy 3.5, what exactly is the incentive? I find it a horrible reflection of a company when it plans for its products to become obsolete, just to inspire further sales. Does 3.5 have substance? some, to be sure. Is it a necessary update? Not a chance.

[Malcor Sylverwood]

For people who are sitting on the fence about whether or not to buy 3.5, what exactly is the incentive?Well, I don't care what they have said about backwords compatibility...I don't think its going to be there. Too many changes, some fairly fundemental--like skills and DR.

I find it a horrible reflection of a company when it plans for its products to become obsolete, just to inspire further sales.Eh, anyone in technology does this. Intel did it for ages, and did it badly until they finally got some real competition from AMD.

Does 3.5 have substance? some, to be sure. Is it a necessary update? Not a chance.Like I said, I'm not so sure I believe this anymore. The more I see, the more I feel that 3.5 is really a seperate, new edition rather than just an update.

~shrugs~ I dunno...we'll see.

-Malcor "Not T$R again!" Sylverwood

[sir archely]

Eh, anyone in technology does this. Intel did it for ages, and did it badly until they finally got some real competition from AMD.

well, just because people in technology do it doesn't make me think it any less horrible. ;) i'm well aware that wotc isn't the only company to do this, and i still think it's not a great thing to do to your customers.


Like I said, I'm not so sure I believe this anymore. The more I see, the more I feel that 3.5 is really a seperate, new edition rather than just an update.

regardless of whether or not it's an update, my comment was simply stating that it isn't really a necessary thing. from AD&D to 3e there's a huge, marked change. This one doesn't even come close to that. it's either too much or too little. if you take a look at what they are changing, there are precious few items that aren't simply a matter of preference, at least imo. the few things that i think are really necessary to improve the game and make it better could easily have been errata'ed. instead of coming out with 3 more 30 dollar books, wotc could have come out with a 15-20 dollar supplement to fix up a few things, and left well enough alone.

here's something i just read, from the editorial review of the 3.5 PHB at amazon...

In addition, the new and revised content instructs players on how to take full advantage of the tie-in D&D miniatures line planned to release in Fall 2003 from Wizards of the Coast, Inc.

now that makes me even more leery about these things. sounds like one of those deals where you buy a car, but the keys aren't included in the contract. obviously not that extreme, but whatever. if part of the new content is to promote wotc miniatures, ugh. again, i can understand it, but i don't think it's very kind to your customers.

there was something else i was going to quote, but i lost it. doh. :(

[sir archely]

ah, here's what i was going to put up. this review is particularly interesting.

http://www.montecook.com/review.html

here's another i just found...

http://www.seankreynolds.com/rpgfiles/misc/3point5comments.html

it uses the first one.

[sir archely]

Well, i have purchased the 3.5 PHB. Mostly because i didn't have ANY of the books, and a friend of mine owns the local games store around here. :D

It's okay, i guess. I REALLY dislike the new movement system in there, and the stupid pics of miniatures that go with it. Don't let anyone tell you that there is "new art" either. As far as i can tell, the only new art they did was where it was absolutely necessary...and the miniatures pictures. The art is 99% the same. Other than that it's mostly just blah, different. If anyone has any specific questions, i'd be more than happy to answer them, keep in mind i only have the PHB though.

[Cloric the Cleric]

Well...having read the reviews Arch posted *thank you sir* I think I have decided that I am not going to be buying this edition unless I become independantly wealthy. My MM and DMG are just barely 2 years old now, and still in pristine condition, and I somehow ended up 2 PhB's...so I'll continue using what I have. if there's a conflict at some point, I, as the DM, will talk it over with the player, or I, as a player, will talk it over with the DM.

I just cannot, in good conscience, see spending that much for books that I don't think I really need.