deep man, open mind...

[jUstIn]

my thoughts on god, reality, and the universe.....
and truth, wisdom, justice, and evil.....
its all humanity. we build these things with our minds and they exsist in everyone. all of the things i mentioned above exsist as a differnt entity in each of our minds, thus the diversity of humanity. remember, the universe and all of the things contained therein exsist only in your head, not as to say that another individual canot lead you to revolation, and turn you world upsidedown......

[dark fuschia]

we are born, we suffer and we die. Are these the only things common to us all?

[Corvus Corax]

I think we all think we are special, that's another thing that makes us more alike than different.

Although everybody is his or her own most special person, there are cases that you think somebody else is even more special than you, or for people with massive egos those wo are just as special as you ;) . This is one of the beautifull things about humanity, not that there are a lot of those. It may not be exclusively human, since it's only evolution having it's way, but it sometimes, when I'm in one of my more phylosophical moods, makes me happy just by seeing it in other people.

ehm, straiing off a bit there, sry.

In short, I'm special, but that's just my opinion :D ;)

[dark fuschia]

this thread was started by Justin so I don't think it would be possible to go off track :)

I agree and think everyone's special. It's a paradox, every single person on their own is worth more than everyone else put together.

[Anita Blake]

I agree and think everyone's special. It's a paradox, every single person on their own is worth more than everyone else put together.

if you could really combine the speciallness of all the individuals and create a whole that allowed for everyone to be the most special, think how great the world could be then.



it's funny houw midnight and high noon are opposite ends of the spectrum, but are deeply alike in terms of power and ambiance.

[dark fuschia]

yeah! like cold and heat, both can kill you and both can feel good. *nods* the world is a dichotomy! The yin and the yang are everywhere.

Also something interesting happened to me the other day. You know the quizs everyone posts in absnot? Well someone posted "Which evil person are you?" and posted a little bit about Elizabeth of Bathory and I thought I'd go and look up her history a little bit cos she sounded interesting and I wanted to find out the primary sources to see how reliable the accounts of her existance are. After half hour of research I felt ill to think this woman actually existed and did some of the things she was reported to do (in her trial records). I can't imagine being able to live with such things on your conscience, her castle truly became a place of evil (if you believe in evil) where torture and murder became a daily occurance. I was filled with loathing for her mingled with a sort of compassion for how lost to darkness she must have been in her own mind to become so warped.

Yet I was struck by how similar her behaviour was to vampirism, if I had read this stuff in the form of fiction, I would have been thinking to msyelf *what a wonderful villlain, she is very beautiful an alluring and dark and deadly and sexy vampire type* like druisilla of buffy. SO I was thinking, why, if in reality I despise these things so much and regard them as true evil, why do I love to hear stories about them and revel in the dark beauty and eroticism of such stories? Are we all secretly attracted to the power of evil? Does evil hold an inherent beauty? Or does evil disguise itself with beauty? With pretty colours to draw people in? Like pretty candy wrappers hiding the calories inside?

[Corvus Corax]

yeah! like cold and heat, both can kill you and both can feel good. *nods* the world is a dichotomy! The yin and the yang are everywhere

Makes me think of something:

Man is made for searching inner peace, not to find it.



I mean, in extremes you feel alive by using everything you have within you to make the situation more tranquile. But once the tranquility has been achived, it's only a matter of time before you get bored.

Boredom is one of the things that makes man do great things, but evil things as well.

blah, enough of this. I don't seem to be able to make a point now. I might post again later.

[Anita Blake]

Originally posted by wendy
Yet I was struck by how similar her behaviour was to vampirism, if I had read this stuff in the form of fiction, I would have been thinking to msyelf *what a wonderful villlain, she is very beautiful an alluring and dark and deadly and sexy vampire type* like druisilla of buffy. SO I was thinking, why, if in reality I despise these things so much and regard them as true evil, why do I love to hear stories about them and revel in the dark beauty and eroticism of such stories? Are we all secretly attracted to the power of evil? Does evil hold an inherent beauty? Or does evil disguise itself with beauty? With pretty colours to draw people in? Like pretty candy wrappers hiding the calories inside?


perhaps it is simply an inner recognition that what our society views as evil might not always be evil, or perhaps i should say that what we think of as 'virtuous' sometimes goes against human nature. We have in many ways been trained to think that darkness and beauty are 'bad' and 'wrong', when some things are just a different part of the natural order, things that we might not be so attracted to if it weren't tabboo and made mystical by the restrictions.

but, i do think we are all secretly attracted to the power of evil, simply because it is hidden, strange, a devious thing that is Forbidden. And after all, Forbidden fruit tastes the sweetest (but leaves you feeling worse the next day)

[dark fuschia]

perhaps it is simply an inner recognition that what our society views as evil might not always be evil, or perhaps i should say that what we think of as 'virtuous' sometimes goes against human nature. We have in many ways been trained to think that darkness and beauty are 'bad' and 'wrong', when some things are just a different part of the natural order, things that we might not be so attracted to if it weren't tabboo and made mystical by the restrictions.

but, i do think we are all secretly attracted to the power of evil, simply because it is hidden, strange, a devious thing that is Forbidden. And after all, Forbidden fruit tastes the sweetest (but leaves you feeling worse the next day)


In a way I do agree, things like predatory behaviour, such the local bully, aren't these just survival tactics that are part of natural selection? But then you reach a new level of evil.. torture for the sake of enjoyment, that doesn't seem natural to me. A cat will torture it's prey I guess, but that is more for the thrill of the chase and the game, rather than to see the mouse suffer. Do any other animals than humans actually have the capacity to enjoy the suffering of another in and of itself alone?

[Corvus Corax]

Sadly enough torture for the sake of enjoyment is not unnatural :( ,nothing is, actualy. You have to remember that evolution is an ongoing proces and we aren't the end, but just a fase. Somewhere humans evolved something that had enjoyment of others suffering as a "side-effect". Unfortunatly this isn't something that will be "naturaly" filtered out by evolution, other than girls not liking this aspect in men and therefor not carrying their children. But then again, some girls are known to have such characteristics as well.

On the other hand, another evolutionary guess, the "civilised" society may think that such individuals aren't desirable and thus eliminate them by putting them in jail. It has proven to be a surviving system so far.

Let's just hope this isn't something inherent in all humans, but dormant in most. Otherwise we'd have to : - eliminate ourselves from the earth. In that manner ethics would destroy themselves;
- or we could try living with it and control it. (home videos ;) :p )


And to connect with the topic of the talk, sorry for straying :( :
we could have evolved a facination for the dark, not only to control our fear of it, which is very usefull, but also to control our desire to do so ourselves. And thus, fiction is a next step in evolution.

Damn, I whish I could make myself clearer, but I'm too limited in time and lingual capacities :( .

[sir archely]

A cat will torture it's prey I guess, but that is more for the thrill of the chase and the game, rather than to see the mouse suffer.

Actually, i just thought i'd note here that the real reason cats play with prey is to avoid being hurt themselves. Cats have poor vision that close to their face, and really can't see something that's right in position for them to close their jaws around. Ever play with a cat and notice that it moves its head if you hold something right in front of its nose? It can't see what the hell you're doing. Usually they cock their noses down and to the side, to at least get one eye on the object. With active prey, this blind-spot could mean that a cat bites down on something that could still fight back. A cat who doesn't "play" with the prey long enough to make sure its completely defenseless leaves itself open to perhaps being damaged itself when it tries to bite. It's not really play so much as it is safety.

[Mike]

You can wonder about play or not. I once saw a documentairy about orca's, those "killerwhales". Their natural prey is nice yummie seal. Well, two of those orca's just had a nice meal and got hold of another seal. They tossed it around in the water, but they didn't kill it. The poor seal flew left and right for quite a while.
Well, when the orca's were done "playing", one of them carried the dazed seal on it's nose to the beach and let it go there. Ok....

[Malcor Sylverwood]

Actually, i just thought i'd note here...
Arch...is there anything you don't know something about? Or do you just make this stuff up (and very well at that)? ;)

-Malcor ":confused:" Sylverwood

[sir archely]

sheesh, what am i supposed to say to that? of course, there are lots of things i know absolutely nothing about. :p

hehe, now i'm gonna start making stuff up. :D

[dark fuschia]

sheesh, what am i supposed to say to that? of course, there are lots of things i know absolutely nothing about. :p

hehe, now i'm gonna start making stuff up. :D

LOL, now that will make me suspicious... but you are a well of interesting tidbits.

[jUstIn]

i have become hung up on real life.
my scope on things is narrow right now.
i cannot see what i once could.
a life altering fork in my life is coming.
i cannot see the outcome of this split.
it scares me.

[jUstIn]

lol. im glad i looked this note up.
the fork came and went. like i thought it would.
it actually panned out predictibly somehow. hahaha life is grand!


:D

[dark fuschia]

heh I am glad you think so old friend *claps you on the back* hell this thread is like super old. I don't remember writing any of this stuff. Sometimes like, I read things I wrote in the past and think, "by gum, what a wank, I knew nothing!" And other times, I nod and agree with myself and think, "yes, that girl really is onto something." Its fun.

[gelflingjen]

Fun on a rainy Sunday, when stuck indoors, to look over old quillerthoughts and let them be my muse.



...why, if in reality I despise these things so much and regard them as true evil, why do I love to hear stories about them and revel in the dark beauty and eroticism of such stories? Are we all secretly attracted to the power of evil? Does evil hold an inherent beauty? Or does evil disguise itself with beauty? With pretty colours to draw people in? Like pretty candy wrappers hiding the calories inside?

My thoughts are that it keeps 'evil' at a healthy distance. To fear evil and out of that fear ignore evil I think places us in a dangerous postion of giving the things we fear power. There is a kind of respect in fictionalizing evil that acknowledges its power but doesn't let it overpower. I can always close the book, so to speak. And it gives us a way of knowing evil objectivly. Some warriors believe that knowing and honoring your opponent encourages the likelihood of your succeeding in any confrontation with them.

I also do believe that what you put your attention on grows. So, while I try to acknowledge darkness and find some respect and allowance for its existance, I try and play that balance of intolerance/tolerance...focusing on the positive in situations where negative exists in seeming abundance. By focusing on the positive, I think that it places--from the perspective of my self--the positive in the position of power. The power of love...

[Amos]

Actually, i just thought i'd note here that the real reason cats play with prey is to avoid being hurt themselves. Cats have poor vision that close to their face, and really can't see something that's right in position for them to close their jaws around. Ever play with a cat and notice that it moves its head if you hold something right in front of its nose? It can't see what the hell you're doing. Usually they cock their noses down and to the side, to at least get one eye on the object. With active prey, this blind-spot could mean that a cat bites down on something that could still fight back. A cat who doesn't "play" with the prey long enough to make sure its completely defenseless leaves itself open to perhaps being damaged itself when it tries to bite. It's not really play so much as it is safety.
It probably does serve the purpose of play as well, though. Nature likes to kill as many birds with as few stones as possible, in my experience (my experience of reading books and generating baseless theories, that is). It's like how polar bears have white skin for camouflage, but obviously also for keeping warm. And come to think of it, the way cats go about killing is almost exactly the same as the way people go about flirting; by keeping your, ahem, prey, at a distance, while having fun tormenting them.