Election '08

[AquaFizz]

Do share your thoughts!

*Yes, you can pick more than one option. I thought it would be convenient since there's that whole debate about voting for someone who's not a Democrat or Republican is like throwing your vote away.

[Dregs]

I'm so over democracy. Why can't they just rock paper scissors for it?

[Anita Blake]

hehe, I"m skewing your poll results because I can neither vote for Obama nor McCain (mmmm, french fries...), what with the Canadian and all.

However, We up North are having our little election too (inspite of a brand-spanking new law forcing fixed election dates that our current Prime Minister said was the best idea since sliced bread, goddammit, and he'll be damned if his government will be toppled by political machinations and a snap election (unless, of course, he feels like calling a snap election...)

But basically, really, in both nations, it's a battle between Conservatives and Liberals. And in both nations, Conservatives have a teeny toehold of power currently that could potentially be upset pretty easily. Both countries currently have a leader that about 30% of eligible voters voted for. Both countries have seen, since the Conservative Leader took power, more government spending and little in return for that spending - increased military spending, token tax cuts that do nothing in the long term but bankrupt the government, reduced surplus in the government coffers (well, not too sure about the USA on that one.)

And in both countries, the Conservative folks are utilizing fear tactics to gain voters, particularly on the economy - Liberal-types will spend more than we have! Your taxes will rise! Hiss!! Boo!

So what will these countries, so close in so many ways, choose to do this autumn?


(of course, in Canada, it's complicated by the fact that there are 3 liberalistic parties running - the Liberals, the socialist far-left NDP [New Democratic Party], and the upstart Green Party. Not to mention the Bloc Quebecois, whose only purpose seems to be encouraging the secession of Quebec. Meanwhile the right wing has only one major party (and I can't think of any minor parties). Talk about splitting the left vote? You guys think you're throwing your vote away if you vote independant? Damn, all most of this country wants to do is get rid of the conservatives, but the left and centre-left is so divided that it's all but impossible.)

[Apoc]

well you got an aussie opinion and a canadian opinion, now for another foreigner opinion from another of your 51st states

on the poll i voted "other"...i personally would have liked Ron Paul and would have supported him, mainly for his stance of getting rid of the illegal, unconstitutional, criminal, never been audited Federal Reserve.

As to the other options and mind these are just my personal opinions-
McCain is a warmongering lying psycho and sarah palin is horrifically stupid and a lying demented cow. Obama looks great and sounds pretty great too but he reminds me of Mousalinni...pfft they're all just puppets anyway in my mind...and democracy? nah this all reeks of Fascism to me.

It's all just a controlled Paradigm anyway, left vs right, democrat vs republican, head to head but both owned by the elites and both forming a very stable platform for them to sit atop...it's all just a big facade and pantomime, a front of a larger power structure. Obama and McCain are both CFR, they're the same. ~shakeshead~ They're both for the north american union (this being the uniting of the U.S, Mexico and Canada with a new currency, the Amero ) and both are working toward the New World Order of One Government...which is bad!

imo

[AquaFizz]

Does this mean you're against the whole "Euro" business, as well?

Speaking of which, I can't remember, was America pushing for a joined North American currency system before the Euro came around and became so powerful?

Moving on...I'm writing in Stephen Colbert.

Now I'm going to rant about Sarah Palin for a second (it's basically the whole reason I started this thread-to keep from going off in the wrong place). Yes, she is an idiot. First, she's SO not taking away my right to chose what I do with my body. At least McCain (as old and crazy as he is) agrees that if they DID ban abortion, he would allow it in cases of rape or incest (and the mother's health..that's the only one Sarah Palin finds acceptable)! Palin thinks it's perfectly acceptable for 9 months to make a woman carry around the product of being tortured and mistreated! Ugh! Let's scar her a little more, why don't we?! Second, her view on this has skewed her mind so much she's practically ruining her daughter's life! There is no way, when I was in High School, if I ended up pregnant that my parents would have let me marry the father! Even if I swore up and down I was in love with him and wanted to marry him, they would be smart enough to realize that I'm only in HIGH SCHOOL..I've going to change and reinvent myself a million times between now and the time I hit 24. Why lock yourself into someone with the promise of "forever" just because you made one mistake? Sure, marriage isn't as forever as it used to be, but that's still everyone's hopes and dreams. You want to say, "Hey...why don't you have the kid and put it up for adoption? There are lots of people who can't have children that would love your baby."...that's fine. But to say, "You're having the baby and you're marrying it's teenage father whom you probably won't love in 3 years, much less 10, 20 or 50!?" That's so WRONG.

Don't get me wrong, I hate, hate, hate it when the news brings a celebrity's/politician's family into view and critisizes them. That girl should be allowed to make whatever choice she wants without millions of people judging her. I HATED it whent hey jumped all over the Bush girls for going out and drinking and I hate it when they do it to other famous children. They're children/teenagers/youngadults and they didn't sign up for the lives their parents chose. But if Sara Palin is willing to throw her child's wants and needs under a bus, she's certainly never going to care about MINE. ...Not exactly something I want in a VP...or a President, as it's only a matter of time before McCain kicks off.

...okay, I feel better now.

[Anita Blake]

well, to be fair, has Palin's daughter actually publically stated that she didn't want to marry the baby-daddy?

As far as Palin is concerned, I'd be more concerned in these times about her foreign affairs experience, namely, all two minutes of it that she got the other day. You're talking about a very insulated woman who hails from an area with a very low population density and very specific geographic concerns (which do tend to shape cultural policies) and talking about her potentially becoming the president. Sure, McCain is pretty likely to live until he's 100, and it's probably a moot point, but still, definitely one to think about.

I'd also be concerned about her on a personal level. This is an anti-choice woman who appropriately enough has five children, one of them still a newborn. Can she truly claim to be fit to run the country while clearly being hypocritical - she believes that women should be mothers (clearly) first and foremost, yet she would practically be abandoning her family for four years while she "mothered" the nation. I would imagine that being Vice President would be very much like being President -in that it's well beyond a full-time job. How can you espouse family values when you have to have a nanny to take care of your children? Or do you simply bring the suckling babe into Pentagon briefings with you? Typically presidential candidates are much older, their children are already grown, or at least teens, so this isn't really an issue. I can't imagine the USA being terribly happy if the VP had to take a day off because the baby is sick.

I don't know if it sounds like i'm saying that moms shouldn't get into politics, but maybe I am saying that. Not mothers of newborn babies. I think being a mom is well beyond a full-time job, and trying to make that and running the country mesh - well I think that would be very straining on any person, and think it would work against their mental and physical health.

McCain, actually, for a Republican, I have to say, I kind of like him. He's a little off-base on some things, but I think for most things, he's a pretty smart guy able to look at many sides of a problem and come up with an agreeable answer.

Joe Biden, I know next-to-nothing about.

Obama, he seems interesting, but it's already showing how his key selling feature - youth and lack of being ingrained in the current political process (ie, capacity to change the system) is wearing out. These major political parties and their analysts, the PR people, the spin doctors - they are ruining your country for you. They prevent the candidates from saying anything too real, too honest, or too meaningful. It's really a shame.

[AquaFizz]

Oh no. I don't think she's said she doesn't want to marry him. But didn't you ever think you'd marry one of your boyfriends from HS? Don't you look back now and go, "OH my spinning wheel! I can't believe I even LIKED him, much less wanted to marry him!"? Of course, plenty of HS sweethearts go out, get married and stay together forever. I just don't like that her mother is encouraging her to do it.

Also, Yeah. I agree Anita. Ya know, I liked Hillary a little. But her daughter is a grown up now-Not a suckling baby. Also, I think it's the baby that has...down syndrome (or some sort of mental disability). I can say with 100% certainty that having a child with special needs is a full-time job in itself. I nannied for one, plus her two siblings for a year and still spend a great amount of time with them, I think I can be a fair judge of that. It was hard keeping up with her and the other two for the 10-12 hours a day I was there. I can't imagine adding two more to the mix AND trying to, you know, help run a country. It seems completely outside the realm of possibility to be able to sufficiently be able to do both.

As far as foreign policy: I guess their thoughts on that were that McCain has experience and so that makes up for it? I mean, I can understand the thought of the two balancing each other out. That could have worked well with Bush/Cheney if they both weren't...you know...Bush and Cheney. But, I fail to see what Palin brings to the table...besides the extra x chromosone. Clearly an act to bring in some of the Hillary voters that I can only HOPE isn't actually working.

I don't think ANYONE knows anything about Biden. That's why they picked him.

And, I like McCain's daughter. Have you been to her blog? A bit interesting and, honestly, the only thing that makes me like McCain a little bit.

[Dregs]

Why are the tags for this thread "America sucks" and "doomed"?

Before anything, I've been studiously avoiding democracy in all its forms for a while. Oz fed election, ACT Council election, US primarys (primaries?) and now the real deal US election have left me a little bit bored of the whole kit and kaboodle. So I have no real idea of who or what these people are like.

Having said, I get a very strong corrupt vibe from Sarah Palin. I don't know where it comes from, maybe the whole in-law crap that I don't know. There's just something very off about her. McCain seems like a nice enough conservative, a little bit more savvy and practical than the last one. Obama seems like a real catalyst for change and optimism, but it could be nothing more than glitz.

State elections here are just stupid. I always have a problem with local elections, in that I'm never in one place long enough to feel like a member of that electorate. Compulsory suffrage is a pain in the arse.

[AquaFizz]

...I was having a bitter, cynical moment. I'll change them...

[Arianna]

MY biggest issue with palin is her hypocrisy: how can she commend her daughter for her 'decision' to keep her baby and then turn around and take that choice away from all women in the US. gah. ridiculous.

however, my personal feelings of her life aside, i think she is the most absurd choice to lead the US. for everything listed above and for everything else.

also, this is pretty hilarious...
http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1831461

[sir archely]

I think McCain picked Palin primarily as a political move. It helps him among the religious right, a group which put Bush over the top, and has the added bonus of her being a woman. It had absolutely nothing to do with her actual credentials. Too bad it's backfiring.

Also, there's an absolute TON of information about Joe Biden, since he's been serving for, you know, three decades. That's just his wikipedia entry (which as a picture of him... or maybe it's an elderly Val Kilmer, i can't decide.)

Anyone else going to watch the VP debate in a few minutes? I'll probably watch about 10 minutes of it, then get disgusted by the continuous non-answers both candidates give. I'll continue watching for another 5-7 minutes while making snarky comments to myself and making bets about who the first one will be to give an actual straight answer and then i'll turn the damn thing off.
The problem for Biden in this debate isn't the crush Palin vs. coddle Palin thing playing out, it's that the expectations for Palin are so low that as long as she doesn't come out foaming at the mouth, knock the podium over and rip Biden's ear off with her bare hands, it'll still be seen as a win for her. Though, i'm not totally sure she won't do just that. Hence the problem.

[Arianna]

i'm SO watching this. its adorable to hear her speak. awww.

when SNL can do a skit based off of her exact (word for word) interview with katie couric, and its a hit, you know you're in trouble.

EDIT: wow, she's really nervous. this is almost uncomfortable to watch

[Anita Blake]

I would have liked to have watched your VP debate, but it was aired at the exact same time as the Canadian Leader's Debate, which I felt was in my best interest to watch. And even though the Canuck population of the Quill is dwindling (because it was always oh so huge... ) I'm going to put my commentary on the Canadian Leader's debate here. Now you may all feel enlightened about world politics.

There are 5 parties represented at the Leader's debate: The incumbent Conservatives (Lead by Prime Minister Stephen Harper); The Liberals (Stephane Dion); The NDP (Jack Layton); The Green Party (Elizabeth May); and the Bloc Quebecois (Gille Duceppe).

Stephen Harper sat and smugly answered questions put to him, and tended to repeat a lot of the same mantras over and over again. Jack Layton, however, took the prize for repeating the same line over and over again - he brought up Harper's $50 billion tax cut to large corporations so many times I thought he might actually be a robot with some kind of malfunction. While I did at one time register with the NDP, I can honestly say I'm fed up with this guy's endless repetition. He is overly emotional and has a difficult time recalling facts - he argues like me, basically, and while I like me, and insists that I am right, I don't think that that's necessarily a good quality of debate style in a potential prime minister.

Harper pretty much convinced me in this debate that he has no soul. I mean, I was already convinced, but truly, I just don't like the guy. He looks weasely, he is smug and condescending, and while he does occasionally make a good point, and every now and then has the right idea behind a couple of his policies, he ultimately has been a terrible prime minister. He's also the only candidate who has refused to release a platform - the election is in two weeks, and this guy won't even tell us his plans for the next few years. grrr.

Stephane Dion's (no relation to Celine. I hope) command of english is not good, which is unfortunate, since he does have some good ideas, and I do plan on supporting him, simply because my MP has been doing a good job of representing my area, and one of the main parts of his party's platform is the Green Shift - a move to taxing carbon and pollution and other things we want less of, and reducing taxes on income and things we want more of. Ultimately, he came off a a little bland in the debate, though he did make some very good points, and I think he acquitted himself rather well.

Gilles Duceppe, well, I can pretty much ignore anything that comes out of his mouth because while his party takes up a considerable portion of Parliament, it is in fact a special interest party - and the special interest is Quebec. If you're not in Quebec, you can't vote for 'em. Touching. Still, for a bit of a wanker, he was quite passionate and well-spoken (pronunciation aside), and I actually tended to agree with a lot of what he had to say.

But by far the most well-spoken debater at the party was newcomer Elizabeth May. She had a lot to say about a lot of issues, and was alwasy very clear, concise, and had good solid evidence to back her claims. It was very nice to see her there, as previously, the leaders of the other parties had refused to participate if she was allowed to join the debate (her party has only 1 seat in parliament, and that one is from an MP who switched parties after being elected, if I remember correctly). She has a strong vision for this country, and has turned the Greens from a single-issue protest party into a very well-rounded party with a real leadership plan.


One thing I found very interesting in the debate was the way different parties accused one another flat out of lying. Layton is the worst for this, I think he just makes stuff up as he goes along, really, but it was quite noticeable between the two main contenders - Harper and Dion. Harper claims that Dion wants to raise taxes - which Dion has flatly denied multiple times, and Dion claims Harper cut funding to the Arts, while HArper says that while he cut some funding to some programs, overall, the arts have recieved more funding. My question is, where do these numbers come from, and why are there so many conflicting stories on what the budget really is? Shouldn't that be something that's kind of transparent?

Bah. There's lots of talk about getting tougher on crime, which is mostly electioneering, really. My thought is that one way to reduce youth crime would be to increase arts and sports funding for schools, increase education budgets altogether. Give kids more of a base, give them something more meaningful to do, and they won't have to resort to crime for kicks.

Regardless, I feel pretty good about having watched the debate, and I hope that you yanks watch your debates as well, and take part in the political process knowing what you're getting into. I feel a lot better knowing more about the candidates and what they believe, and so should you!

[Apoc]

McCain vs McCain

~shakeshead~

Does this mean you're against the whole "Euro" business, as well?

yes....but i won't get into that here. See what you think when you, canada and mexico get the Amero

[night faerie]

ok you all know (or maybe not) that I don't really follow politicians, although I am always fairly opinionated about them. So you know, take this with a grain of salt and whatever you don't like just chalk up to me playing the ignorant american.

I don't know who I'm voting for. I'm considering not voting at all, NY always goes Democratic anyway and with Obama I don't see that in any way changing this election. NY is wildly ethnic & everyone's crazy about Mr. O representin'. ~pounds chest, gansta style~

So ok this is my thing... I mostly like what McCain says but not the way he presents it. And I mostly don't like what Obama says but I love the way he presents it. So who's best for the country?

I know, McCain has become a bit of a hypocrite since he's decided to run, but I still hold out hope that he's really this enthusiastic guy who doesn't give a hooping funt what anyone thinks about him & he's just decided to play the game & compromise his integrity just to get INTO the white house at which point he'll go nyah nyah nyah nyah nyah-nyah and go back to his original ideals which are far more liberal than the card he's presently playing.

Obama is all Mr. Suave, Mr. Smooth, Mr. Charismatic. It doesn't matter much what he says, he just SOUNDS so good saying it. He knows how to play to the crowd, which is important in a leader, especially one who really needs to play especially nice with the international community considering how much damage GWB has done to our reputation. However, he's a little too smooth for my taste and it makes me not trust him.

Plus he's carrying the race card, he'll get a lot of votes just because of his ethnicity- there I said it, lol. It's wrong but it's true. It's funny because I don't think Palin is going to get any votes just because she's a woman. I think the kind of woman who'd vote for Palin just b/c she's a woman are the same kind of women who'll be mortified at her political views. She's a bad example for women in power, really.

Personally, tho, I think it's very exciting this year that we'll be making history either way, I keep telling Gwen how wonderful it is that the year she was born we'll be hosting either the first person of color or female persuasion in the White House. Either way it'll pave the way for others. (maybe even my kid, haha, can you imagine?)

Palin is just scary and Biden I like best out of all of them at this point, so they balance out.

The End.