The rules of attraction

[Eyreplenh]

I was wondering if anyone had any opinions about, I'm not sure just what to call it, but I'm sure you've seen it around; 1st world citizens, usually men (and stereotypically oldish and slightly overeweight) that goes on a holiday to poorer parts and comes back with a pretty young thing to wed.

See, I used to think the whole thing was quite horrendous, or weird at least, but there's been a couple of things that has thrown some perspective on it later on. First there was a television show (soap-umentary?) over here called little Thailand, about a small hamlet on the western coast were a lot of the guys had been to Thailand and fallen in love/"fallen in love". Before this I used to think about all these men as bastards, but the show was quite good at shedding some light at things. Sure, the men were all quite odd, common for them all was that they had stayed behind in the small town carrying on whatever heritage left them by their parents, but they were also kind. And most of the females from said village had left for the big city. I think it really helped to boost my understanding/tolerance for this phenomenon at the time, that all the couples portayed were fairly evenly matched in age. All in all, they all seemed happy, and the show led me to believe that the men that finds wives in that manner in general are kind and decent, with just a small minority treating their wives as little more than housemaids.

Also, during a very deep conversation with my pal Mel of the Philippines, he dropped the gem : "Is it stranger to be attracted by the notion of security than the fantasy of a giant penis?" And maybe it's not... Maybe it's us overpampered westerners that is down a weird track, I don't know.

Of course, Mel had seen a lot of the bad stuff as well, he studies tourism and as such deals a whole lot with visitors to his country, and nothing upset him more than when people failed to show his girls (all the girls were his girls) the proper respect. Other than that, gross differences in weight, height, general hotness or whatever failed to impress him. As long as they treat eachother with respect he would say and shrug.

And of course, it's all a matter of perspective. Even a rich norwegian 19 year old might be turned on by an old geezer if he's rich, charismatic, or the ultimate guy -the former reality-tv celebrity

Now, it's not marriages of convenience (pro forma?) I'm talking about, but whatyamightcallit, spouseimporting. Anyone got any views, personal experiences or thoughts about this? Because I think I might be losing one of the few precious prejudices I got left...

[Anita Blake]

Well, it's tough, the way I see it, because it all depends on the people involved. I think that certainly, there are certain responsibilities involved if you go about marrying someone from an impoverished nation, and bringing them back to your own country. Sure, you're middle-aged, pudgy, and financially stable - but now you have a wife who totally depends on you for everything from language skills to money for groceries - all of it. (going with the rich guy marries poor girl scenario, but feel free to flip the genders if you want). You have to keep up your end of the bargain - even if the little wifey somehow gets older and less attractive to your eyes. You entered into a contract, you have to live up to it, or else, I am afraid, you deserve to pay richly to get out of it. If you uproot someone from their life, family, homeland, and culture, you have to compensate for that.Being a good husband is the compensation you promised, and that means physical/emotional/financial respect.

As for the imported bride, well, she's got responsibilities too, because a marriage isn't just one person. You were imported for a reason - possibly for being young, pretty, and emotionally malleable. A couple of those qualities won't last forever. You don't get a free ride out of this, honey. You have to behave in a manner that is socially acceptable for a wife in your new country. You don't get to move to a new country with a rich fat man and immediately start screwing around with all the fabulously good-looking young men you meet. Nope. (unless, of course, you and your husband have decided that this is precisely the way you want to run your marriage - who am I to judge?!). It is your responsibility to learn local laws - if your husband is mistreating you, you have the right to report him to the police and get a divorce. Being less rich than he led you to believe is not mistreatment.

I had a friend who had an arranged marriage, and I remember at the time she said that in her culture, divorce was very rare, very frowned upon. The nature of the marriage meant that loving the person was not required - but being loyal and devoted to that person was. You do what it takes to make the marriage work, because the marriage is not just about two people - it's a tie between two families, it's part of a social structure, it's simply more important than how you feel about a person. I think in that context, when you think about it, the modern Western idea about finding someone you love, and marrying them without any thought to the needs of your family or community, only to leave them a few years later when the luster has faded - it's a very selfish and silly concept. Probably why divorce rates are sky-high.

I think marriage really has to be looked at like a binding contract. It's not just about love (though, hey, what a bonus!) but it's about social responsibility to another person and, really, when you look at it like that, spouse importing is A-OK, as long as both parties accept the responsibility and treat one another with mutual respect. Hell, in that world, it's probably a much more stable and loving relationship than most of us will have. (i won't address the issue of jerks and their slave-trading ways. because that's not marriage. that's crime.)

[Buck]

I never really thought about this sort of thing, b/c I've never seen it first hand.

In general, young marrying old is for the most part weird in my book. Of course, me finding it weird is just it being different I guess. Overall, if the younger of the two is mature enough and the older person doesn't have the "hehe, the nicest thing about 16 year olds is that even when you get older, ... hehe .. they stay the same ... hehe *nudge*" then I am ok with it.



As for going to a 3rd world country to find a bride. Overall, I don't think such practices are ethical. A middle class american, who isn't the prettiest thing in the world going to a part of the world where standards are much lower to show off his relatively greater material wealth? *shakes head* In general, Im not a fan of materialism, and this sort of scenario uses just that as a weapon in romance. It's pretty underhanded no matter how they color it.


Even ugly and poor people can find someone to marry, they just need to lower their standards, and stop lusting after the exotic beauty.


My 2 cents, for what it's worth.

The nature of the marriage meant that loving the person was not required - but being loyal and devoted to that person was.

I agree with this to a degree. Imo, love does not to make a relationship last. Two people need to be devoted to each other as well. I find families have little to do with it, though it can play a big part depending on culture -- it isn't a necessity.

[Apoc]

Whilst in thailand i threw my plate at a fat 50 odd american prick who had a young wife from Lao...he was a moron and was blurting lines like "it's so easy to fall in love over here." first off, from my experience of thai girls, they don't really have an understanding of what westerners see as love...its a different mentality...anyways, sometimes its sick, like this old really tall guy with a girl that looked about 12...we where disgusted...but its "normal" over there...apparently, maybe to them but for westerners seeing that we just see a sick man living a sick paedophilic fantasy. meh

I think mostly it's like a cheat for getting laid...a massive desperate attempt to get laid after not getting any in the whore filled west...you just go to the likes of thailand coz all you need is cash and there's no pimp hanging over your shoulder...and its cheaper and they have no standards...man i saw like a wrinky mid 70's guy with a mid twenties thai chic all over him...it was pretty gross...but meh, that's my problem i guess, that i see it as gross...as long as they're happy right? ~shrugs~ honestly i don't really care unless it's someone i know...i guess i think it's just kinda...well pathetic really...

[Amelia]

I thinks its also kinda skeevy. We once had this young russian girl, 19, working the front desk, she was young and cute, blonde and she knew it and we found out that she just got married to an American man that she knew for 2 years.....he was 30. What skeeved us out was she was 17 when they started to date.....ick.

[Tipiman]

I have no real opinion here, but find it interesting that age differences between partners are viewed so strongly. In high school a Senior dating a Freshman was a predator (4 years difference); similar feelings in college with the same age difference, but more accepted - all adults and so on. A 30 yr old with a 20 yr old is (how do you say it, Amelia) skeevy. But a 40 yr old with a 30 yr old is rather acceptable. And no one really cares about a 60 yr old with a 40 yr old.
The point is that it is all relative. And I think that in the context of the original topic, THAT is where the "crime" takes place. If a person goes to another culture and "plays the game" by the rules of THAT culture - all is fair. It is when (as Apoc and Buck said) a person takes advantage of the culture and the people therein in the name of "love" or whatever just to get laid that the rules are violated.
OK, so maybe I DID have an opinion after all. . . hee hee hee

[Anita Blake]

I don't know amelia, My good friend started dating a 28 year old when she was 17, and they got married a few years later (and then she promptly left him ). It sounds a little dodgy on the outside, but having been there throughout the whole relationship, it was remarkably not that weird. (plus it's not like she was 17 and in high school. She was actually in a college-like environment, and he was a classmate). I think that situation makes a big difference in large age-gap relationships. If the younger one is in high school and the older is finished college, then that my friends, is gross-out city. But if there is something in common that they share, some social circle,then that's OK. (or at least, it has the potential to be OK)

I guess what it all comes down to is it really just depends on the people in question and their motives.

[Amelia]

it is true I didnt and dont know the relationship between the two, it just seemed icky that a 30 year old man had to go shopping for a girl from a different country. Im not sure how long she lived here she had a strong accent. Hell, she could have lived her all her life, but I dont think so. However, who am I to judge I like to date older men.

[Anita Blake]

oh yeah, that situation sounds a little fishy. I was just (for some weird reason) defending the odd older guy who dates a barely legal girl with honorable intentions.

[Tipiman]

it is true I didnt and dont know the relationship between the two, it just seemed icky that a 30 year old man had to go shopping for a girl from a different country. Im not sure how long she lived here she had a strong accent. Hell, she could have lived her all her life, but I dont think so. However, who am I to judge I like to date older men.

It is interesting to see a couple and then watch where OUR mind goes as to what the relationship may (or may NOT) have come from. We so frequently will judge or aquit based on some previous experience of our own. I try NOT to judge but still catch myself. I can't keep up with younger women anyway so will stick to those I can still catch. . . usually the old or weak in the herd. Just kidding!!!!!

[Eyreplenh]

Hehe...

I'm not sure what my opinion on this topic was originally, it must have waned since Iwas in the east, having the whole thing forced down my throat. I will quote my mom though, bless her, for a fine reply when Igot home for my trip.

Me : Maybe I'll try to charm some girl over there, overall I found people interesting and pretty

Mom : Or maybe you'll grow a pair and dare committing to a norwegian girl in stead.


A loving being my mom, but not very keen on sharing grandma-hood with someone a sixteen hour flight away...

[dark fuschia]

I approve of middle aged men marrying younger prettier girls from other cultures, just so long as they take care of them. Anita expressed my feelings perfectly. I know of families who fall into this category and it often seems to work. The women often take the helm anyway and gain alot of power in their new life because the men often fit a stereotype of being quite meek and gentle, which is probably why they couldn't snag a wstern girl in the first place. Actually one of my very good friends is Japanese and he told me something interesting recently. He has had to return to Japan to live due to circumstances beyond his control and he was quite unhappy about it because he wanted to remain in Australia. However he said there was one positive thing about it, which was that at least he had a hope of finding a wife back in his home country because Japanese women don't mind having a meek husband. He knew that western girls just don't find his submissive nature attractive. And the thing is I kind of agreed with him. Something in our culture makes women desire dominant males rather than submissive ones. I have gained the general impression that it's not always the case in other cultures. My friend told me Japanese women are the other way round and they prefer to marry a submissive man who they can take in hand and look after. He said if a girl is being coerced into an arranged marriage she hopes for a gentle and kind submissive man. This hope has spilled over into the moden era where many japanese men and women choose who they marry, but the women still look for kind and submissive men as that is still what is percieved as attractive. So as has already been said in this thread, culture has a HUGE impact on the way people see relationships and love. While it may be impossible for us to see a pudgy middle aged balding accountant as attractive, to a woman from South East Asia he may be more than just a symbol of an exciting new life; she may find him truly attractive. Anyway people are people, all are intrinsically lovable. I believe that, even though I know it's not always there to see immediately. I think arranged marriages are an acknowledgement of that fact.

On this same topic of cultural tastes I have another friend once who used to say we should send all our fat chicks to Africa and they should send us all their skinny chicks and then everyone would be happy.

I think I am rambling too much, yay it's friday!