Red Dwarf Existence Test

[sir archely]

For those who are not familiar with Red Dwarf (and you should be), it's a british science fiction sitcom. In an episode titled "The Inquisitor" the four main characters of the show are going to be judged by a time-traveling robot who judges everyone in the history of the universe. If a person is judged to not have led a worthwhile life, the robot has the power to completely erase their existence from time and space, to make room for the opportunity for someone else to have life. The trick is that the judging is done by the robot, but in the form of the person judged, and they are judged based on their own value system. So, for example, the Cat, an exceedingly shallow character, is judged to have led a worthwhile life, "by simply pointing out, 'I have given pleasure to the world because I have such a beautiful ass.' "

By now, you should be realizing that the point of the thread is this question...

Do you think that judged on your own scale of values, no matter what that is, you have led a worthwhile existence?

[dark fuschia]

oooh I don't remember that one, I have a feeling it was one I missed because I slept for around five hours during the twenty four hour marathon.

I honestly don't know.

[sir archely]

Okay, is it that people just aren't interested in the question, can't think of anything to say, or just have no idea what i'm talking about? Maybe these links:
RD Inquisitor Part 1
RD Inquisitor Part 2
RD Inquisitor Part 3

Part 2 starts with the test, so if you're only interested in watching for that part, that's the link you want. I can't verify the rest of the episode through those links though, i didn't watch the whole thing on there.

[Eyreplenh]

Okay, is it that people just aren't interested in the question, can't think of anything to say, or just have no idea what i'm talking about?

...or we're not impressed with our answers

[AquaFizz]

I've read the question a couple times. I always understand it. I just cant decide if I should exist.

I guess I just don't know how I would decide.

I think I would say I deserve to exist. I think the simplest, most important thing we can contribute to the world, or at least to our family, is a smile. It's like that commercial...where one person does something nice for one other person and that person then does something nice for another person. I do my best to be nice to people. I, of course, have days where it's impossible. But i try my best..and if I can smile at one person, then that's going to cause a chain reaction of cheerfulness. And in a world like ours...we certainly need more smiles. So, I think I deserve to exist.

...but I feel really conceited for admitting it.

[dark fuschia]

yeah I keep getting confused, because my values have changed abit, and I am unsure of the values themselves sometimes... and I have changed some values over the years, because I decided for various reasons that they weren't worthwhile... but then i have also decided some of them were worthwhile afterall and returned to them.

Furthermore there are different levels of values... there are the higher values which many of us here probably share to varying degrees (for instance respect for fellowman, love of beauty and art, joy in nature), and then there are lower level values, such as what foods you enjoy and the way you spend your evenings, the kind the Cat judged himself by. I guess we ourselves have to decide what values apply to our sense of worth. We like to think the higher values do, however the more we think about it, the more we realize that it is rare that we are confronted with our higher values. In actuality we are more often preoccupied with the kind of things the cat is concerned about (does my bottom look big in this?). It is these values which we confront daily and which we inhabit and are familiar with. For instance what we choose for breakfast or what kind of work we choose to do and why. I guess these things should be directly related to our higher values, however it really isn't for me. My comfort and my desires are often favoured over my ideals. And that is dissapointing... maybe everyone realises that even though they have lofty ideals, they haven't really successfully inhabited those ideals completely. In a way it is impossible to. We live in a world that REQUIRES us to prioritise our comfort to a good extent, because if we didn't who would? So yeah, I suppose my answer is *begs* "Please don't judge me yet, I haven't had a chance! I need more time. Just let me have one more donut and then I promise I will get on with being properly worthwhile."

Maybe there is a paradox in this. We ARE worthwhile to ourselves, we do sustain ourselves to our own satisfaction at most stages of our lives. Maybe we are all just like the Cat. But UNLIKE that Cat, we don't have the ability to feel satisfied in looking out for just ourself. We want to feel worthwhile to others as well. Inexplicably.

But I guess we all have had plenty of a chance, and thats the thing about life, it can end at any moment, and that's a scary notion. To think all that we have been is all that we ever will be, when compared with the unrealised yet grand dreams in our minds. It is the realization that really, they count for nothing if we don't act upon them.

Err yeah I guess I am repeating what EP said in a really long way, we don't like what we find?

Lastly I am also confused by the question because one of my principle values that has NEVER changed is that every human leads a worthwhile existence because their existence itself is worthwhile, even if they are a complete ratbag. In my understanding every notion of compassion and human rights extends from this idea that we are each valueable entities worthy of protection and nurture. Right down to the most lucid and self aware child killer. Even in his evil he (or she?) is a part of creation, though a very difficult to understand part.

I suppose I would find the question easier to understand if it asked "Were you good?"

Then I would say "Yes. Mostly. And I am very sorry and regretful about those bits where I wasn't."

[night faerie]

I disagree with fuschia on one count and that is that I don't think a complete ratbag is a worthwhile being.

Therefore I deserve to exist because I am not a complete ratbag.

That works, right? If X is a ratbag & doesn't deserve to exist than since I am not X I must deserve to exist by default, right?

ok ok I'll come up with a better reasoning...

I deserve to exist because I have all the answers. If everyone would just listen to me, then everything would have it's place, everything would be in it's place & everything would be shiny. Plus everyone would have something important to contribute to the world & would feel loved & secure & have time every day to dance and there would be no war or domestic disputes & everyone would have a pet no one would be lonely, everyone would be happy. Unfortunately, since not everyone listens to me, perhaps that's not the best example...

ok I deserve to exist because I am a facilitator. I move things along. I see people who want to do something but don't because they don't have anyone to push them in the butt in the right direction & I am that butt pusher. Plus I appreciate things. Not enough people in this world appreciate things. I appreciate things & I remind people to appreciate things too. Without appreciation people are blind to the beauty and blessings in their own life, without which life isn't worth living. So I am worthwhile because I live a worth-living life and try to get other people to do the same. Plus, I attract awesome people & introduce them to each other so they all make more awesome friends.

in summation: I deserve to exist because I rock.

The End.

[Eyreplenh]

Maybe there is a paradox in this. We ARE worthwhile to ourselves, we do sustain ourselves to our own satisfaction at most stages of our lives. Maybe we are all just like the Cat. But UNLIKE that Cat, we don't have the ability to feel satisfied in looking out for just ourself. We want to feel worthwhile to others as well. Inexplicably.

Yup. I find that if I try to go down that introspective road, there are only more questions and few answers. I mean, somedays I feel like I'm a saint, but I know I really am not. Other days I feel like the biggest asshole alive, but still I know I'm "better" than a lot of people out there. (please note the word "know" is used in a very vague sense and should not be emphazised)

So, I think I couldn't really answer the question without rephrasing it a bit in my head. Then the answer would probably yes. Because I think other people value me... Err... more people would be sad than happy if I were to step into a field of rabid oxen tomorrow. A bit utilitaritarian perhaps, but only very unprecisely (for instance I'm keeping our dear planet out of the equation; no doubt it'd rather see me go), but I seriously don't know. I used to discuss this with a friend a while ago, but back then the question was always if life's worth living, not if it's worthwhile. I think my answer back then, when my friend asked "then why don't you kill yourself?", was "because I like chocolate". Which of course is totally unrelated but a slightly cat-like answer.

[Apoc]

Justify myself?

How? We as a species are mightily insignificant, we simply breed, spred, war amoungst ourselves and treat our tiny planet and its other inhabitants badly. We are grounded on a speck amoungst billions of others, enslaved by the wealthy through debt and a monetary system that bleeds us of life to simply survive. The only ones then i feel we alone amidst an insignificant species need justify ourselves to are our planet and its other inhabitants to which we plague, our mothers whom birthed and raised us and to those we affect by our actions. If you judge yourself it is to your values and to whether they have been positive and i feel so far to my fellow kind my existence has been positive. Simply by my values at the end of the day i agree with bill hicks that this is all just a ride...and i am enjoying it and have tried to make others just enjoy it rather than be enslaved and wasting their lives in worry, doubt and fear. I've seen much and experienced much but i still thirst for more, to know more, to experience more and to share that thirst and hopefully make others enjoy their lives more because i think this is it...i am not just waiting for something better after i die...i'm ambitious and have been flying cooly and freely, enjoying my ride toward those highty ambitions, the ultimate goals of which are toward bringing enjoyment and people together, opening minds to other ideas and i gues hoping that it'll make people...umm nicer? kinder? better hman beings i guess is the goal. So to justify myself all i can say is that i can't speak for the earth but i know my mum loves me and is proud of things i've done and that my friends seem to find me more a positive presence than a negative one...am i important in this vast universe, unlikely, in this world, maybe...all i can say is that i don't want to be erased from existance, i want to live and enjoy myself more...plus in a it's a wonderful life kinda way, a couple people may die without me being there to have pulled them back from stepping out in front of a bus and jumping in on and breaking up fights and being there to talk through troubles ~shrugs~ but honestly the only justifiable thing for me is that if this is the end and your going to get rid of me...then all i can say is i have few regrets and you cn go fuck yourself.

~is erased~

[QuirkyTemplate]

I think that I fail Red Dwarf's test.

I'm not perfect ... I do some good, I do some evil, but I think it is very interesting way to phrase the test. And the assumption is that if you can do this and that the right way according to whatever standard you have ... well, then you deserve to exist, you're not a bum.

I think though that the question of if you've been good or not is too limited. For most people, being good isn't what makes them worthwhile. For some people it's if they're excellent at their job, or physically attractive, or independent, or wealthy, or intelligent, or a skilled writer, etc ... these are the things that most people look to when they ask themselves if their existence is worthwhile.

It's a kind of slavery, really. If you're not always smart or up on things, then you're nothing. If you ruin your career, you're nothing. So you have to do these things to be worthwhile. Do, do, do, always doing things to justify your existence.

I fall into that trap a whole lot, but on good days I can remember that my life has been stamped "OK" by how God sent his son to die for me. He loves me, just 'cause he loves me. I don't have to do anything, i just rest.

... and when I remember that, I'm free!

[dark fuschia]

rest when you are dead quirk. There's work to be done!

[Amos]

According to my system of values this question isn't worth answering. So that puts me in the same boat as Lister. Lister, and Wittgenstein.

!abstains!