Flu Vaccinations (and others?)

[sir archely]

Get them.


I feel like I just want to leave it there but... seriously, people. Get your flu vaccinations. H1N1 if you can and the normal one. They are ridiculously safe, despite what you may hear the talking heads babbling about. There is no credence to the myth that "the H1N1 vaccine was pushed out too quickly to make it safe" or any of the variations on that theme. Not only is it a good thing for you personally to get it, but it is socially irresponsible for you to not get the vaccine. There are people who are immuno-compromised for various reasons who cannot get the vaccine, and who are far more vulnerable to getting sick, and having more severe complications because of it. If you simply decide to risk getting sick without the vaccine, it is much easier for you to become a carrier and endanger other people.

Not to mention that riding out the flu itself is not very fun. Not getting yourself or your children vaccinated is irresponsible, especially with the children. If you catch yourself saying, "i think i'll chance it with my kids" it should put up a big red flag in your brain that gambling with your children is not a good parenting move. Something like 30 to 40 thousand people die in the US every year from the normal flu. Most of them are elderly, but we've seen how H1N1 attacks the young, who have no resistance at all to it. Even so, unless you feel like endangering grandma and baby too, get vaccinated!

Anecdotes about billy's ex's father's cousin got sick after getting the vaccination do not qualify as science, and reasonable people to not base their own health on such sources.


For that matter, does anyone want to talk about the stupidity of Jenny McCarthy?

[Amelia]

i wish jenny mccarthy would just go away, sometimes I think she does what she does to get on tv.

Im not going to go get a flu shot though. I dont have any excuse for it. Ive gotten them before but only because the Navy gave us them. I dont think I will die because of the shot, its just pure laziness on my part. I didnt get the flu last year. Which suprises me because co workers come in hacking and coughing when they should just stay home.

[Kalle al'Tear]

my kids get all their vaccines. and they will be getting the flu shot and when availible the H1N1 vaccine as well.. I however wont.. only because I have no health insurance and so can't afford to get any vaccines.

[night faerie]

yeah, I have to say I totally disagree with you on this one, arch. I've gotten the flu shot, I've not gotten the flu shot, I've gotten the flu and I don't really see a big deal with any of these options. I'm not getting one this year and I'm not getting one for my kid and for these reasons:

1- She's not in daycare/school where she's way more likely to catch something. If she was, I would be far more likely to have her vaccinated.

2- If she gets the flu instead of the flu shot, she's likely to develop a much stronger immunity to it. Getting the flu shot doesn't necessarily prevent the flu, it does make it far more likely to get a mild form of it if infected, but long term it strengthens the immune system more to get sick than to get vaccinated.

3- Following # 2, I'd rather offer her a stronger longterm immunity and suffer short term with a sick kid for a week. If I think it's better for her to actually get sick, I'm not going to short change her because it's more convenient for me not to have to deal with a sick kid.

4- She has a very strong immunity now. She's only had like two extremely minor colds ever (like just sniffles). If she was a more sickly kid, of course I would have her vaccinated.

Lots of people die from the flu but it's still pretty unlikely to die from the flu.

And the thing with the H1N1 thing attacking "the young" is also a bit of an exaggeration, it just means it doesn't target the elderly. Half of the people not elderly who've died from it have been over 18, so it doesn't target young children any more than it targets healthy adults.

And not for nothing, but it really pisses me off that this stupid flu vaccine has become a hot spot for so many people. I don't think anyone who gets one is an idiot, I think they are doing what they believe is the best FOR THEM. I expect the same respect.

and as far as the whole vaccination/autism thing, there is a proven correlation, there's just no proven cause and effect. I think people are smart to be wary and fearful.

It's incredibly scary to allow people to inject anything into your kid when you know it poses a threat (no matter how minor) because the government says you have to. You have no idea what's really in that stuff and it doesn't matter what's in it because we have no choice but to put it into our kids, unless you want to homeschool your kid.

I mean, I don't even want to get my kid's ears pierced but I have to have my kid vaccinated for chicken pox or she can't go into daycare or school. It doesn't matter that Chicken pox is a minor illness, or that I've never had it, nor has my dad, so there's a decent chance she'll have a natural immunity to it. I am not opposed to the "herd immunizations" in theory. I think it's a very smart thing to do, but it's like the whole antibacterial paranoia thing. Be smart about the things our kids NEED to be immunized against & let parents make educated decisions on things that are not a serious threat. And lets be realistic on what a serious threat is. Getting sick is not the end of the world.

I know this sounds really rant-y and in my head it's not nearly as infuriated as it sounds. I'm just tired of this being such a big deal. It's like people judging you as a parent because you do or don't breastfeed or you do or don't let your kid suck his thumb. These really aren't big deal type issues. I'm sick to death of the media/hype.

[Mike]

Did the manufacturers make the vaccin to help people, or did they do that to make money? Did the managers of those companies receive a bonus for releasing the vaccine in time to sell billions, and would they have gotten the same kind of money if they actually reported a potentially dangerous flaw instead? Can you fully trust billion dollar companies to actually care about your wellbeing?

Besides that, look at the facts. Most people who die, die from complications due to other diseases. In the Netherlands four people died so far, and all of them were seriously weakened by other health issues before they were infected. That doesn't mean you should take this lightly. It's can be a dangerous kind of flu. But it also means you shouldn't blow it out of proportions. Our health insurance will cost us more next year simply due to the insane amounts of money that was spent on this Mexican flu thing. I have a good insurance, but at a price. If that price goes up (and it will), I'll probably need to pick a lesser insurance plan next year. Thanks to all of those who insist on having vaccines
Oh, our government bought billions of vaccines, and now they are actually looking to sell a portion because the flu isn't as bad as expected and not everyone will need to be vaccinated. It can't be that bad then, I'd say.

I don't deny the need for vaccines at times, but you can't hide behind vaccines all the time. Any virus can mutate at any time to something far more (or less) lethal. Vaccines may provide a shield temporarily, but it's those who get sick and survive who'll provide humanity with the strenght to overcome this (and other) disease(s).

[night faerie]

yeah! ~highfives Mike~ I didn't even get into the fact that most of the info we get on how safe/unsafe any of the vaccinations are comes from either the Media or the Companies producing or selling the vaccinations, neither of which are trustworthy sources, IMO.

oh, and Kalle, you should keep an eye out if you want a flu shot, I know out here some places like CVS are giving free flu shots if you spend a certain amount of money at their stores. If you need to buy stuff anyway, it's a good resource.

[Apoc]

Get them.

No.

blah blah ~agrees with nf and mike~ blah...personally i find it disgusting and full of untruths all this media fear mongering and guilt tripping...but meh...i'm massively against the H1N1 and the RFID chip...but just some additional things regarding the H1N1 that i don't really like that haven't been mentioned yet...

German Chancellor Angela Merkel and government ministers will receive a special, additive-free H1N1 vaccine. “The Vakzin [vaccine] does not contain disputed additives — contrary to the vaccine for the remainder of the population,” reports Spiegel Online, “Critics argue that Adjuvantien [adjuvants in the vaccine] could lead to increased inoculation reactions such as headache or fever.” The German government elite and the armed forces will receive Celvapan, an adjuvant-free vaccine manufactured by Baxter. The German public will receive a vaccine produced by GlaxoSmithKline with adjuvants.

Employees of the Paul Ehrlich Institute will also get the adjuvant-free vaccine. Johannes Löwer, president of the institute, said in August that the vaccine causes worse side effects than the virus. Löwer’s comment came after German lung specialist Wolfgang Wodarg said the vaccine increases the risk of cancer. The nutrient solution for the vaccine consists of cancerous cells from animals.

Spiegel reports that there is an “open rebellion” by general medical professionals and child physicians in Germany over use of the toxic vaccine. Dieter Ludwig, chairman of the drug commission of the German medical profession, told Spiegel that health authorities have colluded with pharmaceutical companies.

On July 13, the World Health Organization ordered the inclusion of the deadly adjuvants in the H1N1 vaccine. WHO’s vaccine advisory panel is stacked executives from Baxter, Novartis, GSK and Sanofi. Baxter’s own scientists have stated in the New England Journal of Medicine that adjuvants do not improve antibody response.

As Dr. Russell Baylock of socioecohistory.com warns, the adjuvant squalene is linked to the Gulf War Syndrome. Soldiers who took the anthrax vaccine from 1990 to 1991 had an increased risk of 200 percent in developing the deadly disease amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS), also called Lou Gehrig’s disease. The soldiers also suffered from a number of debilitating and life-shortening diseases, such as polyarteritis nodosa, multiple sclerosis (MS), lupus, transverse myelitis (a neurological disorder caused by inflammation of the spinal cord), endocarditis (inflammation of the heart’s inner lining), optic neuritis with blindness and glomerulonephritis (a type of kidney disease), according to Baylock. “Because squalene, the main ingredient in MF-59, can induce hyperimmune responses and induce autoimmunity, a real danger exists for prolonged activation of the brain’s immune cells, the microglia. This type of prolonged activation has been strongly associated with such diseases as multiple sclerosis, Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, ALS and possibly vaccine-related encephalitis. It has been shown that activation of the systemic immune system, as occurs with vaccination, rapidly activates the brain’s microglia at the same time, and this brain inflammation can persist for long periods,” notes Baylock.

I personally dislike that those in high authority in Germany will get a special vaccine without adjuvants and i personally see squalene as a soft kill weapon designed to injure and slow kill the general population...but that's just me and my kerazy theories

In the United States though, a large number of people are refusing to take what they believe also to be a deadly vaccine. In response, the government has launched this massive propaganda campaign.

If this propaganda effort fails, i feel the government may eventually impose mandatory vaccinations on the public under the ruse of a public emergency.

The CDC says H1N1 vaccine in the U.S. will not contain squalene, however some doses of the H1N1 vaccine will contain thimerosal, a known culprit in causing autism and neurological deficits (various sources).

On September 15th, Physorg reported that the H1N1 vaccine will contain thimerosal. The mercury-based preservative “will be found in most vials of the H1N1 vaccine.”

4,500 families are suing the government because they believe vaccines caused their child’s autism .

“Studies indicate that mercury tends to accumulate in the brains of primates and other animals after they are injected with vaccines. Mercury poisoning has been linked to cardiovascular disease, autism, seizures, mental retardation, hyperactivity, dyslexia and many other nervous system conditions,” writes Dawn Prate for Natural News. Since the 1990s, there has been a tenfold or 1000-percent increase in autism, according to research cited by Prate.

To me it begs the question, are vaccines a eugenics weapon, a corporation big moneymaker or are scientists and the vaccine manufacturers just clueless?

Expert on infectuous diseases says vaccine is dangerous.

Ten questions about flu vaccines that doctors and health authorities refuse to answer.

[Kalle al'Tear]

Thanks NF I will look into it.

The reason why I have my kids get the flu vaccination is that I have noticed a difference between the flu seasons where they do get the vaccine and the flu seasons where they don't. When they don't get the vaccine they get sick a lot more and for longer stretches of time (a full week or two verses a few days). Which means that they each time spend a week too sick to go to school or do other things(like playing soccer). Which means that if they are too sick to go to school they miss out on valuable class time information that makes it so that they then don't understand the next unit that their classmates are working on when they get back.. so that starts a domino effect where Adria mostly will struggle for quite awhile after to catch back up.

To me it is worth it just so I don't have to deal with them sick for a week and then spend all that time catching back up. And with 3 kids they don't all get sick at once.. No its ends up being one sick.. then another one then the last one.. and then chances are one of the first two will get sick all over again.. oh and then me. So that is a lot of missed school.. and for me when I am working (which right now I am not) that is a lot of time where I either have to miss work (which isn't good) to take care of a sick child. or find someone that is willing to watch my sick child and spend the day feeling very guilty and horrible for having my child be at someone else's house instead of at home in their own bed being taken care of by their mom like they should be. and also for exposing whoever is taking care of my kids ,and their families,to whatever my kids have.

so for those reasons I always try to get the flu shot when I can for my kids. This year Adria has had hers while at a doctors apointment for something else. Kaia and Lane haven't because the doctors office ran out and we are waiting for more to come in. Kaia is sick for the second time in 3 weeks with the flu.. and Lane just tonight has come down with a fever and all the flu symptoms. Which means that both of them will be missing school tomorrow on top of not feeling well. where as Adria who has had the flu shot has been feeling great and wont be missing school.

about the Jenny McCarthy thing. I know that there has been a link to Vaccines that they aren't able to prove yet. But that a HUGE number of children seemed to change after getting a certain one that you get at age 2. So I can see be cautious until there is better understanding. But there has also been links to things in diet as well. so I think a lot more research needs to be done.

[night faerie]

See, that's exactly what I'm saying. You know your kids and you're making a decision you know will be right FOR THEM and for their (& your) situation. That's exactly how it should be.

Oh, and Apoc, check this: There is available to all (from what I understand) here, the H1N1 vacc with or without the additives. However, you have to specifically ask your Dr for the one without, otherwise you get the one with. Also, it's not being publicized that people have this option.

Now they're saying that getting the regular flu shot may make the H1N1 more dangerous or something, that you should take only one shot but not both. I don't know, I kinda think this is more BS created by the media, but who knows what to believe.

************************************************** ***

For some reason, the powers that be are being unreasonably uncooperative in looking into the whole autism thing. It's like, first people were saying it was this one preservative that was to blame. So the drug companies did all this research & said, nope, it's not that preservative so it is therefore safe.

I'm thinking ok, so it's not that preservative but maybe it's that one in combination with something else, obviously there is SOMEthing in there that is reacting with something that is causing abnormally high results of autism & autism related results. But the gov't (who mandates all kids get this vacc) and the drug companies won't even talk about it. What the hell are they putting into our kids that they don't want us to know about???

Oh, and yes, they should DEFINATELY look into the diet factor in this, I've heard a lot about how diet can be directly altering kids with autism & also the ADHD thing. Maybe it's a combination of diet + vaccination.

[Amos]

but long term it strengthens the immune system more to get sick than to get vaccinated.

I don't think that's true. Vaccine agents are basically neutered (non-virulent) virus samples, so what they teach your immune system is the same as what it would learn if the virus was contracted naturally. As an example of how vaccines can be more effective, if you want to build up an immunity to cobra venom you don't wander around waiting for cobras to bite you. Instead you take very small, controlled doses. Not enough to seriously harm you but enough so that your immune system can work on ways to counter it. So for avoiding death by an especially virulent cobra-like virus getting vaccinated definitely seems safer. But generally I think how quickly you recover and the overall strength of your immune system has less to do with whether you get vaccinated or just get sick and more to do with health and fitness and mindset.

[Amos]

Since the 1990s, there has been a tenfold or 1000-percent increase in autism, according to research cited by Prate.

But isn't that more likely to be related to improvements in the diagnosis of autism? Does the reasearch he cites actually link the tenfold increase causally to vaccines or is it just the number of cases identified? People were getting vaccinated long before the nineties came around after all.

i personally see squalene as a soft kill weapon designed to injure and slow kill the general population.

Ha. I doubt it's half as effective as social networking sites.

[night faerie]

I don't think that's true. Vaccine agents are basically neutered (non-virulent) virus samples, so what they teach your immune system is the same as what it would learn if the virus was contracted naturally. As an example of how vaccines can be more effective, if you want to build up an immunity to cobra venom you don't wander around waiting for cobras to bite you. Instead you take very small, controlled doses. Not enough to seriously harm you but enough so that your immune system can work on ways to counter it. So for avoiding death by an especially virulent cobra-like virus getting vaccinated definitely seems safer. But generally I think how quickly you recover and the overall strength of your immune system has less to do with whether you get vaccinated or just get sick and more to do with health and fitness and mindset.

I just checked the CDC & NIH websites & neither of them even address this issue. However, I think it has something to do with the type of vacc. being given. For ex: About 20% of people who get the vacc go on to get the disease. The pox is a much lesser severity than had they not been vacc at all, however, something like 99% of people who don't get the vacc & get the pox are immune for life. So getting it alone is more likely to make you immune than getting the vacc & then getting the pox anyway. Plus, only about 50 people a year die from chicken pox. You're more likely to die in a plane crash than from the pox, but do we make it a federal law that noone's allowed to fly????

Maybe I'm wrong, but I still think I have the right to make what I believe is the right decision. I just don't see what the big deal is with getting the flu. And as for the pox, well, I think the gov't should get the hell out of my kids' bloodstream for something as minor as the pox.

But isn't that more likely to be related to improvements in the diagnosis of autism?

That's a good point, and definitely factors in. The issue, tho, revolves around the symptoms occurring directly after vaccinations are given, regardless of the childs age at the time.

[Amelia]

NF and Kalle, I think it should be a personal decision. I dont disagree with any of you about your reasons to/not to get your kids vaccinated. Im not getting the flu vaccine mostly cause Im lazy but I really dont see a difference and the flu vaccine is only for 3 strands of the flu that they think is out there.
I decided to get the chicken pox vaccine in 2003 because I never had it and I have heard that its more dangerous to get it as an adult and the military was asking me if I ever had it and would give me a vaccine if I havent had it and didnt really believe me when I said I never. My sister didnt get it until she was 20 and she got it bad!!!

Im also vaccinated against small pax and anthrax, I will stay alive for the any apocolypse that comes along.

[Amos]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I still think I have the right to make what I believe is the right decision.

I think so too. Or I think I think so. As sir archely pointed out, if the virus is contagious you're potentially putting other people at risk by not getting immunised (or having your kids immunised). On the other hand, even being immunised doesn't necessarily mean you're no longer a carrier since many viruses can survive outside of the human body (chicken pox will for about 12 days). On the other other hand, sanitation in the 21st century is a lot better than what it used to be, so presumably our immune systems are weaker against a wider range of diseases due to lack of exposure. Polio makes for an interesting case:

"Before the 20th century, polio infections were rarely seen in infants before six months of age, most cases occurring in children six months to four years of age. Poorer sanitation of the time resulted in a constant exposure to the virus, which enhanced a natural immunity within the population. In developed countries during the late 19th and early 20th centuries, improvements were made in community sanitation, including better sewage disposal and clean water supplies. These changes drastically increased the proportion of children and adults at risk of paralytic polio infection, by reducing childhood exposure and immunity to the disease." (Wikipedia)

It isn't poor sanitation that has all but eradicated polio, however. That would be vaccination. And smallpox, which was responsible for an estimated 300–500 million deaths in the 20th century, was only eradicated thanks extensive vaccination campaigns. If people had refused those vaccinations because they were afraid of side effects it might still be rampant today, twelve-thousand years after it first emerged.

I'm not convinced that all vaccinations are necessary, but nor am I a hundred percent sure that all vaccinations shouldn't be mandatory, especially in cases when the risk of an endemic (or pandemic) is high.

[Eyreplenh]

I generally think we're overmedicated enough as it is, and until this thing proves more dangerous (like when it merges with the avian variety of the flu. When people, when ) I'm not going to get it either.

And it's kind of ridiculous -our government, like the one Mike is stuck with in the Netherlands, has bought heaps of the stuff. Which is okay, really it is -but the thing is they bough a little bit more than double what we need, if we administered it to the whole population. And even that's okay, in a way, if it hadn't been for the fact they are now recommending people not to get it. Dumb? Yes.