A Memory of Light - Spoiler thread

[sir archely]

So, I got the book Saturday, started it Sunday, and finished it Monday. I enjoyed it a lot, but I won't say it was amazing. Definitely nice to have an ending to the series, but the perfect word for it is bittersweet. For now, I'll just post some of the quick thoughts as they come to me. Very spoilery-like.

Guess it doesn't matter any more, but I'll put this edit in just to pad out the post and prevent it from showing spoilers on any abbreviation of the post. Blah blah Blah Blah Blah. Of course I started with the ending. Sorry nf! Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah.

The ending, Rand alive, faking his death... Soooo predicted that one about 13 books ago. There was just way too much assumption by the characters throughout the entire series that "blood on the rocks of Shayol Ghul" meant Rand would have to die, when it clearly didn't actually mean that. Not to mention that he had a seeping wound for much of the series.
Speaking of which, Padan Fain was noticeably absent for much of the book, and had an extremely anticlimactic end.

The series of sword fights (gawyn vs. dem, then galad vs dem, then lan vs. dem) seemed a bit weird. Kind of the same scene over and over. Could have done without the first two, and just kept with just-a-dude Lan, who, as usual, kicks serious ass. Very surprised, and a bit disappointed, that Egwene was the one really main character to bite it. She had some awesome moments over the past few books, and I thought with her strength of leadership she could have been instrumental in uniting people (and the white/black towers) in the coming years.

Liked Olver with the horn... though I didn't quite get the conversation Mat had with Hawkwing about Mat not being tied to the horn. Is there some reason, or is that just a completely random conversation?

In more general terms, I felt like Sanderson never really got a great grasp on writing Mat. He got closer in this book, but Mat still wasn't the same. It doesn't help that we had to wait a couple hundred pages to get to Mat at all. Sanderson also definitely does not have the same skill in writing tactical engagements that Jordan did. Which is a shame, since this book ended up being a lot of "this group goes here, and this group goes here, and then they all fall down".

I did quite enjoy Rand's confrontation with the Dark One. It was well thought out, well reasoned, and had a logical progression. The form of less epic magical confrontation and more epic philosophical confrontation pleased me.

Also, WHY YOU HAVE TO BRING BACK HURIN JUST TO KILL HURIN?

Maybe I'll come back to this once other people post some thoughts and write something less all over the place.

[Cypher]

Haven't been to the home page in so long that I didn't realize first lines of a post show, so, this is an edit to get the spoiler stuff from showing on that home page.

So many people just 'die' while Rand's looking at the threads that you just don't get the feel of them dying. Anti-Balefire seemed kind of weird. I can't imagine Perrin's meaning have anything to do with an opposite of balefire when he said 'it's just a weave' last book. He barely knows anything about using the one power, no way he could know or assume that things have opposites.

As far as Padan Fain is concerned (this being from no reread in ages), I believe he was like a third party to everything, not an ally of the dark one and not an ally of the light. His own agenda probably got sped up when he realized the last battle was happening. That being said after seeming so powerful in earlier books, he did get taken care of rather abruptly in the last 40 pages of the book.

Slayer/Perrin/Lanfear going around in the dream world was pretty well drawn out. Lanfear seemed to know way more of Slayer's abilities than she should have, don't recall her as being the best tel'aran'rhiod user out of the forsaken, but what she was doing in there made her seem to be way better than Perrin and Slayer, even.

I didn't feel like Min was written anything like RJ wrote her in the earlier books. At least concerning her ability to see fates above people's heads.

Felt way too much leeway was given to using portals as weapons, especially Androl's talent. By the sounds of it, Androl = Noal = Jain F***ing Farstrider, that guy's done everything!

Those Sharan Prophecies that Demandred fulfilled have gotta be very obscure. Probably enough so that any male channeler from the age of legends could've fulfilled them? Seemingly he got the whole land behind him in under 3-4? years. Or was it a bit longer that they were out of the bore?

Mat probably had that conversation with Hawkwing because of his memories. Just had to confirm through Hawkwing that he's not a hero of the horn reborn, like Birgitte/Gaidal. Since the heroes don't keep their memories when born. Whereas Hawkwing probably knows every hero since he's been in there forever and a day.

I feel like I'm missing some stuff? Everyone (Moiraine/Nynaeve/Thom at least) saw Rand pulling Moridin out of the cave. While looking after Rand's body, how the hell did they let Moridin just up and disappear? Did they bury him quickly and Alivia made a portal from the tomb?

Maybe I'll give the whole thing or some parts a reread during my ski trip that I leave for in a week and a half. At least on the plane rides.

[Corvus Corax]

I got the book last thursday and was all RAFO'd out last monday. Bittersweet is indeed a quite exquisite word.

I've also felt that Sanderson, though he did a great job, had difficulty with finding Mat's voice, which I think is part of a bigger issue with him that I have. It's fan service. He doesn't have trouble writing Perrin (who actually improved a lot) and others since they weren't adored on such a great scale as Mat was. So, all of Mat's characteristics that made him popular were amplified, which made him into a bit of a charicature of himself. In other ways the fan service could be found in stuff like the gateways being used in combat, something every forum discussing WoT has dozens of discussions about. Mat's discussion with Hawkwing was the same It seemed a bit senseless, until you regard it as an in universe response of the author to speculations of the fans. (other fan service answering questions/speculations in my eyes were: double bonding between ashaman and aes sedai, placing the dragons in a cave and having them shoot through gateways). But I can understand it and kind of appreciate it. How much did RJ himself take from the fans? How often, when he said RAFO, did he think to himself: "bloody good point, I'd better answer it in the book)

Those are about the only "issues" I have with Sanderson's contributions though. It was never going to be the same, I expected and accepted that, I'm glad he did it as well as he did .

The series of sword fights, to me, was twofold. It could be seen, by sceptical eyes, as answering fan speculations as to who would be the best sword fighter in the series, but it could also be seen as a parallell with the fight Rand is facing at the same moment.

I actually don't know whether it was Rand's body doing the carrying when they got out of the cave. Of the two, I suspect Morodin's body to have been in the best shape to cary the other while Rand's body was at that moment in time in greater need of being carried. The way Nakomi commented seemed to refer to that in my reading it.

I was actually glad when the Sharans showed up. Up to that point it was going faaaaaaaaar too smoothly in my opinion. I could have gone with a few more deaths of Makor characters as well. And also a few deaths that weren't full couples. If Galad hadn't made it, I was sure Berelain would have kicked the bucket as well.

I'm really liking the part with the pipe. And the ending itself (I mean, the part about the wind) I saw that comming when I read the great hunt. Nicely done. I had kind of speculated that Rand would indeed have killed the DO, but that Padan Fain would replace him, or at the very least would have played some role. The way he ended was anticlimactic. Such a good villain goes to waste.

The chapter of the Last Battle being so long was apparently intent to make you get in a similar state (exhaustion/fatigue/when will this end?) as the characters are going through.

When Androl first refered to Jain I though he might have been telling a little lie and that Jain Farstrider was his father and that he could channel before he went to Shayol Ghul to go the way of Aiel male channelers, only to be stilled/gentled and made a fool by Baalzamon/Ishy. Now I'm pondering over the possibility that Androl is the author of "the journies of Jain Farstrider".

Anyway, getting late, wrapping up:

Overall a very good book. You can't say it wasn't action packed. It could have been a bit better, but it could have been a LOT worse. A nice ending to the series where, at a certain point, a single manly tear was shed. Was this because of the situation in the book (Tam at the pyre), because of the realisation that this was the end of this epic series, or a mix of both, I still don't know, but it was an ending . And it is indeed Epic fantasy, with a big capital E. With all its flaws and its age showing a bit, I don't think I'll be able to find anything quite like it. I've read aSoIaF, which is great, but it just isn't the same.

Through this series my life has changed and I think for the better. At the very least it got me to meet you guys.

[sir archely]

Padded for front page no spoilers. Padding...padding....padding....padding....padding ...



Yeah, Min was another character that Sanderson didn't quite get the feel of. Though, I actually liked the Seanchan connection with her, and how all of the various omens that Tuon was seeing seemingly had historical justification. That clicked for me. Instead of being some random superstition, they have this basis in historical precedents set by other people who had the same ability as Min.

Lanfear did claim that Tel'aran'rhiod was her domain, so she's probably got some skillz there. I think we do know that Moghedien is more skilled in the dream than Lanfear, though.

Corvus, your answer on the 'fan service' aspect of Mat and other things makes them make a lot more sense to me. I'm definitely not tuned in to the WoT online fan discussion any more, so things (like Hawkwing/Mat discussion) just seemed sort of random until you put them in that context. Personally, I don't think the gateways in combat thing was as overdone as it could have been. I was waiting for someone to use the infinitely sharp edge of the gateway as a weapon, and I don't think that happened. At least not in this book. I don't understand why you wouldn't just open a gateway through someone. The end. Androl does some very precise gateway making in this book (with the tea, iirc), so I don't know why he couldn't just make a gateway through someone's neck. Maybe I'm forgetting something mentioned about gateways somewhere, but with the creative possibilities, they do seem like the most potent specific weave we have seen.

I forgot to mention that I definitely appreciated the Tam scenes. I don't know if it was Sanderson's writing, or just the nature of the climax of the book and Tam's evolving relationship with Rand, but stuff with Tam definitely seemed to get better in the past couple books.

Also agree on the pipe thing at the end.

[Cypher]

This is the aMoL thread, there are spoilers in it, hopefully you don't read past this line.

Personally, I don't think the gateways in combat thing was as overdone as it could have been. I was waiting for someone to use the infinitely sharp edge of the gateway as a weapon, and I don't think that happened. At least not in this book. I don't understand why you wouldn't just open a gateway through someone. The end.

I believe that's exactly what Androl was doing when he and Pevara were going around killing sharans/looking for Taim. Believe he decapitated some of them with gateways... can gateways be made sideways like that? Based off the book, obviously looking down you can make them sideways/parallel to the ground.

[sir archely]

This is a spoiler post for AMoL.


Sanderson did a question and answer thing on twitter recently, and answered some of the things we were talking about in this thread. Although it seems like most of the really big questions about things were still from Jordan, and will likely never have an answer.

http://www.tor.com/blogs/2013/01/bra...s-from-torchat

[Dregs]

This is a spoiler post for AMoL.

This is also a spoiler post for AMoL.

First off, it's good. Not entirely how I expected it, sometimes in a good way, others not so good. In short what it was always going to be after 2007.



I couldn't work out why Mat just didn't sit right in this book, and I think CC nailed it by calling him a caricature of Jordan's Mat. I think he was the most satisfying character to read in all the series, and it's a bit disappointing to see him end like that. Nonetheless, I still enjoyed the Mat sections.

I think the overall trend in this book was tying off as many loose ends and characters. I'm not sure it worked, it felt more like a stutter in the narrative to me. I didn't think we needed a POV from Juilin Sandar the thief-catcher, Hurin could have been left out, Fain could have been forgotten for all the sense bringing him back made. Perrin seemed to have little to do until the end, and then it was a flurry of activity and off to find Faile. (I'm a fan of Faile, but she could have been killed off. Too ballsy for Sanderson? Dunno.)

Having got that of my chest, it was rivetting. I looked forward to reading it at the end of every day, and I had to stay up till 1am last night to finish it. The build-up towards the end was good, even if it was a bit choppy. I enjoyed the PoV's of the only Sanderson created character Androl (although I missed the bit about Jain Farstrider. I might have to skim through, unless you good folks have a reference?). Demandred was good as the villain most in need of killing, and I thought maybe Mat might do it. With a quarterstaff. But Lan was a better choice probably.

So it's over. I'll probably read the whole lot through next year, and I think that might be it. I think I'm older and the series too different now for me to maintain the same level of enthusiasm for it. Now that AMoL is done, I think I'll find some of the books in the middle stupid and unnecessary.

Also, what do you all think was the "gun on the mantlepiece" that Sanderson referred to?

[Eyreplenh]

This isn't really a spoiler post for AMOL.

However, a few spoilers might occur.

Seriously, I don't know what or whom it might involve yet, but there might be spoilers.

So... I finally got the book last week. Due to an insane agenda I haven't been able to finish it before now (the all-night read-fests I'd indulge in in my younger years now all seem to be filled with statistics of some kind, the most recent perp being regression. Again.), but then again, I was almost a month late getting it in the first place. What can I say? But I liked it.

I must say I kind of did not like the "picture by picture" struggle between Rand and the Dark one, but whenever I tried to think about how it might have been done differently, I always had a hard time. Like all of Rands sections would be one-liners like "their wills were still locked in ferocious battle". The end of that battle and the realizations, philosophy and whatnot were all pretty inevitable, but overall I liked it.

The most important point of this book for me, however, occurred when I had to take a break reading and deal with parts of the mountain of dishes that had been piling up. I was about midway through the book, and as I was doing the dishes it hit me that it would soon be over. Now, I'm a book and fantasy veteran, I've finished series before, witnessed beloved characters die off like flies and series fizz out into an awkward ending. But this ending would really be something special.

I got the first book of the series (which, in norwegian was half of The eye of the world and called The escape from Emonds Field. Classical fucking publishing) for christmas when I had just turned 11. Blessed be that aunt for not really having a grasp on books and proper reading age. Because I struggled. I remember being mesmerized by the cover illustration and style, as well as the text on the back. This was definitively different from the other stuff I'd been reading (of which the Hardy boys and Nancy Drew probably were the most advanced), and I remember that christmas night, reverently opening the book, turning to the prologue; and not understanding squat. I was not dumber than that I reasoned out what a prologue was, but the weird names and fragmented in medias res opening did nothing but confuse this pre-pubescent boy. After a couple of attempts, I somewhat unwillingly, and wondering about the legality of it all, skipped the prologue and dug into the book. The rest, as they say, is history.

A lot of things followed from this. For starters, I started sleeping in the uppermost, innermost corner of my bed, in the belief that if I could see both the door and the window, at least I'd see the Myrdraal coming. Also, it was the start of some years of really enjoying my birthdays, as well as christmas. The norwegian publisher continued splitting the books in two, so that each year I'd get part one late october and then the next one in december. It was perfect (albeit probably a bit unfair on the other people bringing me presents, as the small square one from an aunt got all the attention).

Also, it showed me that just as there are other worlds than this, there are also other books in this world, besides what remnants from my parents not so great reading history around the house. Yes, it was the Wheel of Time that brought on my library era. Every other night I would take my somewhat befuddled, yet content dad (he wasn't really into reading, but figured it was a nice enough hobby. Plus, young father of four that he was, it didn't hurt that it was free!) to the big downtown library. After an hour or so of browsing, I'd always exit with stacks of books which I always had time to finish before going back. Basically, the Wheel of Time made a reader out of me.

Implementing things like seeking the void into my confused hold of reality also probably saved my younger brothers a punch to the face or two. Hikes in the forest with long breaks seeking out the one power or just trying to stare a branch off a tree yielded few results, while playing hide and seek and other games in the dark woods took on a whole other level of fun. For me, at least. It was not really a prerequisite for my fun that the seeker knew he was a minion of the Dark One.

I got into my first and only fight because of these books, as I once took down an asshole for picking on someone three years younger than him (which is a lot when their ages are 13 and 10), the morale imperative and guts of it I didn't really have, but I'd read about it. Besides I'd really wanted to punch that guys face for ages!

That's why, for me, when reading the difficult and somewhat boring books that have preceded this one, I haven't really been able to focus on that, in stead I have quite enjoyed every new meeting with these old friends of mine. The only indication of the books somewhat losing their grip on me is probably that the rate of rereading them has definitively gone down with the last books.

So, when I was doing those dishes and thinking about what I thought of the book so far, I realized that it wouldn't make that much sense for me to think of it that way. Had I gotten that first book at cynic fifteen instead of tender eleven, it would probably have been a lot different, but for me, this was the final meeting with a few of my best friends from the past. I actually had real flesh and blood friends when I was a kid too, so don't read too much drama into this

Brandon Sanderson I think has overall done a nice job of piecing the puzzle together, even though it is sometimes a bit forced, in this book exemplified by the staff-wielding thiefcatcher and not really missed Padan Fain. I also felt Demandreds silly Lews Therin hangup was a bit overdone and weird, as well as the series of duels, even though I guess it fits kind of into RJ general code of conduct. I would really have liked it had the asshole gotten his day, and while I enjoyed Lans "death is lighter than a feather" I would really have preferred it if it had turned out lofty Galad had been the one. Brother to the dragon and all.

And, ho, delivering on demands from fans could definitively explain some off the weird parts.

I agree that Sanderson didn't quite nail the big-scenario fighting, he's definitively not as crafty with this (yet) as the likes of Steven Erikson, for instance, although I think in his own new series the Way of Kings he shows promise. Mostly I felt that wielders of the power got a somewhat awkward role. I mean, in one of the recent ones, Rand took down a million trollocs or something by himself with his spinning gateway-thingy... I get the idea of wielders on both sides cancelling eachother out, but with the wielders recent spike in destructive power, one would think that someone would be unwatched for a minute or two -time enough to annihilate the opposing un-magical parts of the army.

For me though, the best part was that they did not kill off the magic. When Aviendha had her going back to Rhuidean-visions, I feared what she saw was a world without the power, and a solution where the Dark One were driven off, along with the True and One power seemed plausible enough. Writers have gone that way, but I always feel that is kind of a cheap shot.

So when Rand lit his pipe at the end, that was a win in my book

[Amos]

I cringed my way through the first few pages before giving up. This was a few weeks ago, and I hadn't even thought about the book again until I came here today. So I happily set about reading spoilers with the enlightened opinion that hearing about it would be a lot more agreeable than enduring it, and now I can truthfully say that I'm very happy with my decision to let things end this way. In particular I liked that I didn't have to read it - that would have ruined the whole series for me. If only I had known earlier that my need for closure could be satisfied without it encroaching awkwardly on my nostalgia. I never would have dreaded this day half so much.

[Anita Blake]

Spoilers here.

OK, i'm not done yet, so i haven't read any of the posts in here yet. In a couple more days, I'm going to read through this thread.

I'm in The Last Battle. Had a total moment of lower-lip quavering, tears rolling down my face. BELA! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooo!!!!!! Basically, I spent half my morning crying, and i need to go to my friend's birthday party, but inside, I feel dead. A world without Siuan and Gareth Bryne and Gawyn and BELA?! This is the saddest day.

When Siuan went, I was like "what, wait, what? what just happened here? Why did this just happen?" It's like everything is moving too fast (she says about the 200 page chapter). But for some reason, the death of Bela hit me harder than any other. I was harbouring the hope that maybe Bela really was the Creator after all. Meanwhile, back in the real world, my boyfriend is looking at me like i'm some kind of idiot, and asking me "oh, did something fictional happen to a fictional character?" I'm like (lower lip quavering, whispering, eyes bloodshot and teary) "The horse died. Shut up."

[Anita Blake]

ok. Now I'm done. So more with the spoilers.

Well. I just don't know. I cried and sniffled and cried some more all through the last 100 pages as shit got more and more real.

I found the whole Padan Fain thing to be seriously anti-climactic. I kind of figured he'd be sort of gollum-like, the actual key to winning the Last Battle. Somehow, he'd come between Rand & the Dark One and some weird thing would happen that would cause the Happy Ending. But no, instead, just a brief few paragraphs, and then boom, dead. Functionally irrelevant. And I can't say how much I wanted someone to put an a'dam on Tuon, just to show her how wrong she is. WHY DIDN'T THAT HAPPEN?!

And OK, the real thing, the real kicker that is actually still making me tear up - Egwene. I mean, it's great that she went out in a heroic blaze of glory, but damn. DAMN! That didn't need to happen. It really, really didn't. It was just so unnecessary. It served no purpose other than to make us all cry. (the rest of you were so teary eyed and sobbing you couldn't read, right? that wasn't just me? I went through a lot of kleenex. But then, I cry a lot at books.)

At the end of it all, though, I don't know what I think of it. I feel like... this huge section of my life just came to this abrupt ending. I've been reading these books since 1996. It's been a long time! And the ending, i mean, with Rand, we all knew it was coming, you could see it a mile away, but then it happens, and it's like "oh, tra la la, i'm going to go walk the earth for a bit and be a boring guy. See ya!" Just... kind of a let-down, i guess. You want it to be more, to be bigger, to have a bit more emotion, but then, I guess that since Rand has been the most emotionally unavailable character for the past decade, it's hard to summon up a bit of "give a crap" when other, more awesome and interesting characters just bit the dust for virtually no reason other than that Rand couldn't philosophize fast enough. Seriously. It all came down to "Well, if this one guy can actually understand the world he lives in on time, everything will be OK." But then it turns out he's kind of an epic fuckwit who takes his bloody time in mulling things over and imagining stupid made-up futures that nobody would want anyway. And that's why everyone died. ~headdesk~

In terms of the writing, I didn't have any real objections. I agree with what a lot of people are saying here about Mat, he became more of a jokey-guy, but I was OK with it. It was nice to see the pace pick up, even if we were left with the battle equivalent of Man of Steel for a 200 page Last Battle chapter (and by that I mean: a lot of punching. Just sheer violence with and stuff getting pummeled constantly and it ultimately doesn't mean a whole lot.)

I'm exhausted now. Probably shouldn't have read that last 150 pages while hung-over and having just woken up. Ooops.

[Anita Blake]

spoilers blah blah blah.

ok. so. I've had a day to think things over. (spending part of my day in a parade yesterday helped stop me from crying all day. I was a MESS!).

And here's what I'm most disappointed about. The damane compromise. I mean, if you think about it, the whole damane thing was really an allegory for slavery. An entire economy run on the slavery of a few different-type people. It's morally repugnant, and we spent a lot of the series being reminded of how fucking terrible it is. Everyone is like "whoa. putting people in collars and forcing them to your will while also dehumanizing them and treating them as less than animals while also making them do all the hard work of your nation, that's bad, M'kay? Let's make sure we stop that shit, and make sure that it ends for reals."

The along comes the Last Battle, and all of a sudden it's like "Well, we find it horrible, just really, really wrong. Wrong on every level that there is a wrong. But also, we need you to help us out. And instead of pointing out to you, their leader, and proving it in the one way we actually know will prove it, (slapping an a'dam on your silly neck), instead, we'll agree that it's OK if you keep on being horrible, horrible people and enslaving people in the worst possible way, as long as you leave us alone. In fact, those prisoners of ours that you took? Go ahead and keep 'em. That's fine. We never really liked one of them any way." And then it's all capped off by the Seanchan popping in and a'daming Moghedien, and that's OK, because she's like, bad and stuff.

I mean, there was the awesome chance for Egwene to effect real change, and I liked the scene, I liked seeing her just rip into Tuon, but at the same time, there should have been a better way. There should have been a way to convince the Seanchan to bow to the power of the White Tower. There should have been some kind of anti-a'dam invented by one of the new novices or something. Or at least a hint of a way to end the cycle of slavery. But there wasn't. In fact, there were hints that the future would just continue to be a bunch of shitty slavery getting spread around. (Aviendha's rhuidean visions). I know RJ was from the south, but jesus christ, dude. You leave us with the shadow of slavery hanging around, and not only that, but with the best characters being complicit and sort of being OK with it; hell, even Mat was like "eh, it's not right, but whatchya gonna do about it? I bagged me one of my own today, yay me!". Rand was like "You know what, fine, I'm OK with you keeping your slaves, do whatever you want with them, but, uh, try to keep it more quiet, OK?"

And that, to me, was the most disappointing thing. I don't know if it was Sanderson's fault, if it was something that RJ had in his notes (you can't defeat slavers, y'all! Damn Yanks!). I'm going to blame Harriet. She stepped in to kill Bela (how. could. you.), which means she probably could have said "you know, about this whole 'let them take slaves' thing, can we not do that?"