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Thread: Ecological Footprint

  1. #31
    Hey! That's ME! AquaFizz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ecological Footprint

    ~tried public transportation, decided it took too long, now drives all by herself almost everyday, forgets to recycle cans, or cut the little plastic holders, leaves the water on while she brushes her teeth AND stands in the shower WAY too long..also enjoys baths.~

    So there. ~But...doesn't litter?~
    A smooth sea never made a skillful sailor.

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  2. #32
    High Roller High House Moon Dregs's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ecological Footprint

    Quote Originally Posted by AquaFizz View Post
    ~tried public transportation, decided it took too long, now drives all by herself almost everyday, forgets to recycle cans, or cut the little plastic holders, leaves the water on while she brushes her teeth AND stands in the shower WAY too long..also enjoys baths.~

    So there. ~But...doesn't litter?~
    I hope you're kidding.
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  3. #33
    Hey! That's ME! AquaFizz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ecological Footprint

    I am. In reality, I also litter.

    No! I got 5.1 planets on the test. And I don't understand the other stuff. I was partially kidding. The cans thing doesn't apply to me bc my family doesn't get cans often, we're plastic people...and we recycle them..most of the time.

    ...I do use a lot of water, though. I can't help it. I enjoy it immensely, and am stubborn in understanding how water could be considered a dwindling resource.

    Also, because this is funny,...I'm very against the wasting of paper. I actually made Katey quite upset the other day. She kept taking postit notes and scrunching them up. I said, "Did you know paper comes from trees? In order to make paper, you have to KILL trees. You're KILLING trees" ..I'm evil. But she stopped. So...I win.
    A smooth sea never made a skillful sailor.

    Oh. About that...

  4. #34

    Default Re: Ecological Footprint

    Quote Originally Posted by fizz
    Or maybe its just a matter of making an effort to look up new ways to be green and then sharing them with each other.
    That's more or less what I was thinking. It would be nice to bully, extort, and marginalise each other, but there's a dangerous possibility that we would become pro-active, and we don't want to look like we're trying too hard. My personal approach to conservation is to just do less. Eat less, remove lightbulbs, commit less arsons and start fewer wars, etc.

    As to the whole water thing: technically there is probably more water these days, thanks to the ice caps melting, but I would refrain from celebrating that if you don't want homeless polar bears knocking angrily on your doorstep. And hey, all the ways you use water require energy, especially when you heat it, but even just to get it to your home. The more you use, the more energy you burn/waste.

    Oh, and I'm all for guilt

  5. #35

    Default Re: Ecological Footprint

    Water is a question of available uncontaminated freshwater reserves. Those levels are dropping precipitously. Rising sea levels have little effect on this... in fact, they reduce the overall level of freshwater, as the Antarctic ice cap is mostly freshwater, which is slowly chipping away and diluting into the oceans.

    Ender

  6. #36
    void Anita Blake's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ecological Footprint

    can we just make this thread about environmental discussion? i mean, it already has an apt title, and we're already talking about it here. Wouldn't it be wasteful to start a whole new thread?

    anyway, my effort: i replaced the christmas lights in my living room, the ones i use for every day lighting purposes, with energy efficient LED lights a couple weeks ago. I'm not totally satisfied with the light-replacement, but i feel good knowing it's less energy being used. (i'm repurposing the old lights into a kind of lamp, or at least i would, if i could make the damn things work now...)

    i don't return my bottles. I mean, we go through a lot of empty wine bottles in this household, so i could potentially make a few bucks back from my drinking habit, but frankly, i don't know where to take them, nor do i have the motivation to return them. however, there is a high incidence of panhandling/recyclists in my neighborhood, so i usually just leave my bottles neatly in a bag or box outside my dumpster for someone to pick up and return. What's the consensus on this? I feel like i am a) donating to people and making it easier for them, preventing them from needing to dig through my dumpster, and b) getting the bottles back to the recycling center. But i sometimes wonder, is it wrong to be basically encouraging dumpster divers? i figure, they'll do it anyway, what's wrong with giving them more work? am i being arrogant? i worry about that sometimes...

    anyway: here's my "green" tip: buy local produce when possible. produce from foreign countries had to be trasported, using a large quantity of fuels to get there. By purchasing local produce, you are encouraging your own local economy, as well as reducing the amount of fuel used to deliver your food.

    In my grocery stores, it's quite frequent for there to be, for example, apples from BC (local), apples from washington, apples from california, apples from new zealand. A green choice for me would be to buy BC apples over NZ apples, even though the NZ apples make me feel like i'm closer to the summer in this silly winter.

    also, you can sign up for the Nature Challenge, which is 10 easy ways to reduce your environmental impact.
    Your sense of self is defined by what you think other people think of you.

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  7. #37

    Default Re: Ecological Footprint

    Quote Originally Posted by Anita Blake View Post
    anyway: here's my "green" tip: buy local produce when possible. produce from foreign countries had to be trasported, using a large quantity of fuels to get there. By purchasing local produce, you are encouraging your own local economy, as well as reducing the amount of fuel used to deliver your food.
    This smacks of the 100 mile diet. And a darn good thing, for all and sundry I reckon!

  8. #38
    King Sloth High House Chaos sir archely's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ecological Footprint

    Quote Originally Posted by Buck View Post
    I said it before in this thread and I will say it again. The math behind the calculator is flawed and obviously biased toward sensationalism. As an aside, being nicer to mother earth is always a good idea, but I wouldn't trust that site to provide anything 'real'.
    you said it before, and you didn't provide a reasoning for it then either.

    I, for one, would like to see your examples of where the quiz is not calculating correctly. Not based on your opinions either. If you read the FAQ and the "calculating" links, you'll see plenty of reasoning and explanation that you appear to have skipped. they even provide a link for a way more detailed spreadsheet calculator if you wanted.

    i mean, it's not my calculator, and i'll agree it's not perfect, but how could it be? if you can point out some major (or even minor) flaws that they haven't taken into account, then good for you.
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  9. #39
    High Roller High House Moon Dregs's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ecological Footprint

    I don't think anything (certainly nothing on the internet) can give you a truly personalised snapshot of your environmental impact. What I think that it's particularly useful for is highlighting some of the areas where a person can make changes. I don't see it as a finger pointing exercise at all, more a vehicle about making people think about how they live and its impact.

    Having said that, my overall impact is high (and in fact is probably higher given my current job), and there's not a great deal I can do about it. I live 800km from the nearest large city (and by large I mean popn over 1million), with no public transport whatsoever, no real oppurtunity to buy locally grown produce, and I spend a lot of time driving my big 4WD.
    (I told you it was a mistake to let me have a signature.)

  10. #40

    Default Re: Ecological Footprint

    CATEGORY / GLOBAL HECTARES
    FOOD / 2.2
    MOBILITY / 0.3
    SHELTER / 1.5
    GOODS/SERVICES / 1.8
    TOTAL FOOTPRINT / 5.8

    IN COMPARISON, THE AVERAGE ECOLOGICAL FOOTPRINT IN YOUR COUNTRY IS 7.6 GLOBAL HECTARES PER PERSON. WORLDWIDE, THERE EXIST 1.8 BIOLOGICALLY PRODUCTIVE GLOBAL HECTARES PER PERSON.

    IF EVERYONE LIVED LIKE YOU, WE WOULD NEED 3.2 PLANETS.

    I'm not sure what this all means yet so I'm feeling guilty by default. I was a little defensive about the trasnport questions because where I live is technically semi-rural and to get to public transport we need to drive there anyway. <shrug> Still, if we're chatting environments, I can say the drought and subsequent water shortage scares me to my soul. Can you believe if I drive five minutes down the road, I enter the next shire and water restrictions no longer exist? Ahhh.
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  11. #41
    ~sigh~ High House Dawn Buck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ecological Footprint

    I am not sure evn where to begin arch, Ive read the 'FAQ' and it doesnt really go into many specifics if any for everything.


    CATEGORY ACRES
    FOOD 4
    MOBILITY 1
    SHELTER 7.4
    GOODS/SERVICES 5.7
    TOTAL FOOTPRINT 18



    IN COMPARISON, THE AVERAGE ECOLOGICAL FOOTPRINT IN YOUR COUNTRY IS 24 ACRES PER PERSON.

    WORLDWIDE, THERE EXIST 4.5 BIOLOGICALLY PRODUCTIVE ACRES PER PERSON.



    IF EVERYONE LIVED LIKE YOU, WE WOULD NEED 4.1 PLANETS.
    From what I have been able to interpret, some of the numbers are ridiculous.

    Food: 4 acres.

    I have lived off of farmland and I can tell you that 4 acres is too high. My best guess is that this calculator assumes you grow everything you eat on your plot. That means you grow your own apples, oranges, herd your own beef, chicken etc..

    This is unreal. Even in extremely rural environments, farmers specialize. One land owner grows nothing but string beans, one grows nothing bit corn, one person grows nothing but wheat, while another livestock farm specializes specifically on pigs etc.

    This is high efficiency and you can trade quite a bit for what you need using what you have.

    I would guesstimate my food acre to be closer to 1 acre and that is based off of real personal experiences.

    MOBILITY 1

    I am guessing this accounts for the area I move around in for work and what have you. I put in an extremely low commute in my quiz becasue I live right next to my school but I can see this figure being quite out of control for people who have a large commute.

    What I laugh at is that this mobility tracker doesnt seem to account for communal property. If my neighbors and I all live in the same apartment complex and we all work at school, we all utilize the same roads, highways etc. Does this number account for this?

    When I lived in an isolated town with its own farmalands each person did not need their own 1 acre devoted to just walkways. Sure this is only 1 acre I arguing here, so it is almost not worth mentioning this.

    On to the interesting numbers..



    SHELTER 7.4

    "he Housing Footprint covers the spaces for built-up land, the energy and resources for constructing the building, and the energy for operating it. In our accounts, this category does not include the furniture, appliances, or cleaning equipment, which are accounted for in the "Goods and Services" section."

    So by the FAQ, even though I live in one apartment in a large complex, the calculator does the math to build the whole building. It does not take into account other tenants and neighbors.

    It does account for energy services to sustain it. So I guess that vague term implies utilities.

    But 7.4 acres? For what? My own personal power plant? Water plant?

    Where is the communal aspect? A power plant can supply power to millions of people, as can water treatment plants. Seriously.


    7.4!?

    No.

    GOODS/SERVICES 5.7

    I guess, if I had a factory build JUST for me so I can have my desks, tables, chairs, forks, knives, television etc, then yea I can see 5.7 acres. But again the same re-occurring issue is happening here again. Where is the communal aspect?





    And now for the coup de grace, the source of my groaning:

    IF EVERYONE LIVED LIKE YOU, WE WOULD NEED 4.1 PLANETS.
    TAKE ACTION
    DONATE

    Which directly links to a form to fill out to give earthdaynetwork your money.

    Here is sensationalism and guilt take off like a rocket. I don't even know where to begin. 4.1 planets? I am not a hog of that magnitude, I don't care what the quiz says. Instead of concentrating on the number 4.1 and how wrong it is, Ill let my above statements peck away at that number while I talk about EarthDayNetwork.


    How many cents for every dollar I give them actually goes toward fixing the environment? Most non-profit places are pretty good about providing info like that. Anything along 70-80% carry over is pretty reasonable.

    I checked out their site, and aside from spreading awareness, what is their goal? Dont get me wrong, awareness is a great thing. but if my money would just be given to some people at a desk, no thanks.



    As for the quiz itself, in a nutshell if grossly over estimates the amount of actual land you use, and does not account for community which is at the heart of how humanity exists. Is that detailed enough for you Arch?
    I wanna be like a goose and fly to new orleans for the winter and to canada for the summer.

    Gaidin to Amelia. She is the bomb. And the keeper of satan's nose. Acually, all I have now is her right nostril...

  12. #42
    ~sigh~ High House Dawn Buck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ecological Footprint

    On a side (double post) note, writing that up made me feel and no doubt makes me look like some seal clubbing anti-conservationalist, To speak up and question a site like that I have to be some sort of mother earth hater, right?

    Catch-22
    I wanna be like a goose and fly to new orleans for the winter and to canada for the summer.

    Gaidin to Amelia. She is the bomb. And the keeper of satan's nose. Acually, all I have now is her right nostril...

  13. #43
    void Anita Blake's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ecological Footprint

    Quote Originally Posted by Daspar View Post
    This smacks of the 100 mile diet. And a darn good thing, for all and sundry I reckon!
    got me! i have read about the 100 mile diet, and while i respect it for it's inherent good idea, i've also spent too much time in rural canada to believe that it's truly possible for large swaths of the population. I mean, there are places where the only food that grows in commercially viable quanities is grains, and more than half the year is spent under snow and scouring frozen winds. for several hundred miles around. Unless people in those areas were to go on a sudden gardening spree (which many of them do) and freeze all their veggies (which i'm sure lots do) and then only eat bread, frozen garden veggies, and meat year round... well, ok, actually that doesn't sound so bad, but i don't think it's feasible all the time.

    For me, following the 100 mile diet would mean i never got to eat rice, which i consider a staple, or orange juice, though i could have apple and cranberry juice, so that would be alright, i guess... i guess it's just something that bears a lot of thinking about, which is good, because we should be thinking consumers, not wanton buy everything we want consumers.

    the 100 mile diet is much easier to commit to in the summer, but not so simple in the barren winter months...
    Your sense of self is defined by what you think other people think of you.

    I'm a militant Agnostic: I don't know and neither do you!

  14. #44
    Hey! That's ME! AquaFizz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ecological Footprint

    Anita, what don't you like about the lighting with the new LED lights?

    ..just thinking. Lighting is boyfriend's area of expertise. He might be able to reccomend something.

    ALso, I like turning lightbulbs into mini hanging vases and/or plant holders.
    A smooth sea never made a skillful sailor.

    Oh. About that...

  15. #45
    King Sloth High House Chaos sir archely's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ecological Footprint

    For the record, again, it's not my quiz, and i'm not saying it's perfect. I am saying, similar to dregs, that it's a decent tool, especially compared with nothing. psst, if you read the FAQ, the very first item is the "intent" of the quiz, and it states just that.

    To respond to Buck, first i'll quote part of my last post:
    Quote Originally Posted by me
    I, for one, would like to see your examples of where the quiz is not calculating correctly. Not based on your opinions either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Buck View Post
    As for the quiz itself, in a nutshell if grossly over estimates the amount of actual land you use, and does not account for community which is at the heart of how humanity exists. Is that detailed enough for you Arch?
    In a word, no.

    Quote Originally Posted by buck
    I am not sure evn where to begin arch, Ive read the 'FAQ' and it doesnt really go into many specifics if any for everything.
    are you reading the same FAQ as i am? it basically tells you what goes into each item.


    From what I have been able to interpret, some of the numbers are ridiculous.

    Food: 4 acres.

    I have lived off of farmland and I can tell you that 4 acres is too high.
    I would guesstimate my food acre to be closer to 1 acre and that is based off of real personal experiences.
    from the FAQ: "The Food Footprint includes areas to graze animals, fish, and grow food as well as the energy to process and transport the food."

    and hence the question about your diet. so there you go. Based off of governent or peer-reviewed data, not, "so i lived on a farm, and my best guesstimate is..."

    MOBILITY 1

    I am guessing this accounts for the area I move around in for work and what have you. I put in an extremely low commute in my quiz becasue I live right next to my school but I can see this figure being quite out of control for people who have a large commute.

    What I laugh at is that this mobility tracker doesnt seem to account for communal property. If my neighbors and I all live in the same apartment complex and we all work at school, we all utilize the same roads, highways etc. Does this number account for this?
    from the FAQ: "The Mobility Footprint includes all aspects of personal mobility, from walking to riding bicycles, taking trains, driving cars and flying planes. These activities occupy space for road infrastructure, energy and resources for building the infrastructure and manufacturing the vehicles, and energy for operating them."

    so yes, of course it accounts for communal space. i'm sure it isn't putting the entire cost of building a sidewalk on just you Buck, but you surely receive a portion of it.



    SHELTER 7.4

    "he Housing Footprint covers the spaces for built-up land, the energy and resources for constructing the building, and the energy for operating it. In our accounts, this category does not include the furniture, appliances, or cleaning equipment, which are accounted for in the "Goods and Services" section."

    So by the FAQ, even though I live in one apartment in a large complex, the calculator does the math to build the whole building. It does not take into account other tenants and neighbors.

    It does account for energy services to sustain it. So I guess that vague term implies utilities.

    But 7.4 acres? For what? My own personal power plant? Water plant?

    Where is the communal aspect? A power plant can supply power to millions of people, as can water treatment plants. Seriously.


    7.4!?

    No.
    Actually, if you reread that portion, a bit further down it explains why you answered a question about your type of housing. in fact, the apartment complex is a choice of answer in the quiz itself. changing that will have an impact on your results. ie, you already took that into account.

    and again, your reasoning here is...? apparently just that your gut reaction says that's too much.

    GOODS/SERVICES 5.7

    I guess, if I had a factory build JUST for me so I can have my desks, tables, chairs, forks, knives, television etc, then yea I can see 5.7 acres. But again the same re-occurring issue is happening here again. Where is the communal aspect?
    buck, you really think they are giving every person who takes this quiz the entire cost of building the factory and maintaining it for just a single fork? give them a little credit. of course you don't receive the entire cost, if that was the case, the numbers would be astronomical. you receive a portion.

    and again, reasoning here is... buck says too big. therefore wrong.


    And now for the coup de grace, the source of my groaning:

    IF EVERYONE LIVED LIKE YOU, WE WOULD NEED 4.1 PLANETS.
    TAKE ACTION
    DONATE

    Which directly links to a form to fill out to give earthdaynetwork your money.

    Here is sensationalism and guilt take off like a rocket. I don't even know where to begin. 4.1 planets? I am not a hog of that magnitude, I don't care what the quiz says. Instead of concentrating on the number 4.1 and how wrong it is, Ill let my above statements peck away at that number while I talk about EarthDayNetwork.

    How many cents for every dollar I give them actually goes toward fixing the environment? Most non-profit places are pretty good about providing info like that. Anything along 70-80% carry over is pretty reasonable.

    I checked out their site, and aside from spreading awareness, what is their goal? Dont get me wrong, awareness is a great thing. but if my money would just be given to some people at a desk, no thanks.
    so you don't like the donate thing. great, i don't care, don't donate. but don't let that color your attitude on a quiz that may be helpful. you still haven't provided any real reason why that number isn't close to what they're saying, aside from the "i don't think so" and "this doesn't seem right to me" and "they're requesting donations, so it must be wrong."
    I have given pleasure to the world because I have such a beautiful ass!

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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